How to find the equivalent resistance?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the equivalent resistance in a circuit with multiple resistors, specifically focusing on configurations involving parallel and series arrangements. Participants are exploring the implications of Kirchhoff's laws and Thevenin's theorem in their analyses.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Some participants attempt to identify pairs of resistors in parallel and calculate the equivalent resistance based on those configurations.
  • Others raise questions about the correctness of their assumptions regarding series and parallel arrangements, particularly concerning the role of certain resistors.
  • Several participants explore the application of Kirchhoff's laws to determine current through specific resistors and the total current in the circuit.
  • Questions are posed about the implications of removing certain resistors and the resulting circuit behavior, particularly regarding Thevenin equivalents.
  • One participant discusses the symmetry in the circuit and how it simplifies the analysis of equivalent resistance.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing various approaches and questioning each other's reasoning. Some guidance on using Kirchhoff's laws and Thevenin's theorem has been offered, but there is no clear consensus on the correct method or final equivalent resistance value. Participants are engaging with the material and seeking clarification on specific points.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the configuration of resistors and the impact of voltage supply on current distribution. There are mentions of potential misunderstandings regarding the behavior of the circuit when certain resistors are removed or when voltage is applied.

haha1234
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Homework Statement


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Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


(a)I think there are two pairs of resistances are in parallel,one pair is the 40ohm and 50ohm resistances,and the other pair is the 30ohm and 60ohm resistances.But I'm not to sure:oldfrown:
20150920_004505[1].jpg

So the Req I've calculate is 152.2ohm...
but I have no idea in how to calculate the Req in (b)...:sorry:
Thanks
 
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a) is wrong because the 10Ω is not in series ( and not in parallel ).

Regard the middle 5 resistors, supply them by a voltage V ( e.g. 100V ), calculate the the current, I, that is passing them. Then Req = V / I + 20Ω + 80Ω.

b) can be solved, using the same method.
 
(a): By using Kirchhoffs 1. law ( KCL ), you must find ( by 100V ):

I60Ω = 0.811456A
I30Ω = 1.551312A

Itotal = 2.36277A → R5 = 100V / Itotal = 42.3232Ω → Req = 142.3232Ω

This can also be calculated using Thevenin equivalents.
 
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Hesch said:
(a): By using Kirchhoffs 1. law ( KCL ), you must find ( by 100V ):

I60Ω = 0.811456A
I30Ω = 1.551312A

Itotal = 2.36277A → R5 = 100V / Itotal = 42.3232Ω → Req = 142.3232Ω

This can also be calculated using Thevenin equivalents.
Um...I still cannot understand.
Could you explain why the total current is equal to I60Ω + I30Ω?
Why the value of the total current does not depend on other resistances?
And, how to find it by using Thevenin equivalents?:frown:
Thanks
 
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haha1234 said:
Could you explain why the total current is equal to I60Ω + I30Ω?
Look at the diagram in #1: There are these two, and no other paths, for the current to pass the circuit. You could also say:

Itotal = I40Ω + I50Ω
haha1234 said:
Why the value of the total current does not depend on other resistances?
In reality there is no current at all, because no voltage is supplied. But to find the resistance of the circuit, you pick out 5 resistors and supply them by
V = 100V and find the resulting current, I. Then R = V / I.

You are just doing an experiment.
haha1234 said:
And, how to find it by using Thevenin equivalents?
Remove the 10Ω resistor.
Again supply 100V across (30Ω+40Ω) and across (50Ω+60Ω).

Calculate the node voltage between 30Ω and 40Ω. This is the Thevenin voltage as for these two resistors.
The Thevenin resistance is the parallel value of these two resistors

Calculate the node voltage between 50Ω and 60Ω. This is the Thevenin voltage as for these two resistors.
The Thevenin resistance is the parallel value of these two resistors

Now reinsert the 10Ω between this and this equvalent, face to face, and calculate the voltages at each end of the resistor.
I40Ω and I50Ω can now be calculated by means of ohm's law. R = V / (I40Ω + I50Ω).
 
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Hesch said:
Look at the diagram in #1: There are these two, and no other paths, for the current to pass the circuit. You could also say:

Itotal = I40Ω + I50Ω

In reality there is no current at all, because no voltage is supplied. But to find the resistance of the circuit, you pick out 5 resistors and supply them by
V = 100V and find the resulting current, I. Then R = V / I.

You are just doing an experiment.

Remove the 10Ω resistor.
Again supply 100V across (30Ω+40Ω) and across (50Ω+60Ω).

Calculate the node voltage between 30Ω and 40Ω. This is the Thevenin voltage as for these two resistors.
The Thevenin resistance is the parallel value of these two resistors

Calculate the node voltage between 50Ω and 60Ω. This is the Thevenin voltage as for these two resistors.
The Thevenin resistance is the parallel value of these two resistors

Now reinsert the 10Ω between this and this equvalent, face to face, and calculate the voltages at each end of the resistor.
I40Ω and I50Ω can now be calculated by means of ohm's law. R = V / (I40Ω + I50Ω).
um…
So the 10ohm resistance is set to be a load resistance ?
But I still cannot understand …
There will be an open circuit after we remove the resistance(
Hesch said:
Look at the diagram in #1: There are these two, and no other paths, for the current to pass the circuit. You could also say:

Itotal = I40Ω + I50Ω

In reality there is no current at all, because no voltage is supplied. But to find the resistance of the circuit, you pick out 5 resistors and supply them by
V = 100V and find the resulting current, I. Then R = V / I.

You are just doing an experiment.

Remove the 10Ω resistor.
Again supply 100V across (30Ω+40Ω) and across (50Ω+60Ω).

Calculate the node voltage between 30Ω and 40Ω. This is the Thevenin voltage as for these two resistors.
The Thevenin resistance is the parallel value of these two resistors

Calculate the node voltage between 50Ω and 60Ω. This is the Thevenin voltage as for these two resistors.
The Thevenin resistance is the parallel value of these two resistors

Now reinsert the 10Ω between this and this equvalent, face to face, and calculate the voltages at each end of the resistor.
I40Ω and I50Ω can now be calculated by means of ohm's law. R = V / (I40Ω + I50Ω).
Oh…Thanks
Btw I read some solutions from the internet
The solution shows that V1 is equal to V2
But if we supply 100V to them,R1and R2 will get 100V,while R3,R4 and R5 need to share 100V together so I think V1 and V2 may not be the same…:sorry:
I know I'm too stupid :frown:
 

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Problem (b) I can do in my head.

I get it wrong of course. But I do that with pen and paper anyway.

It's a fairly involved problem for a general circuit of that morphology. But here there are strong simplifying features - all the resistances are equal and it has a symmetry - so a general method is perhaps over-powered.

I take the overall potential difference A-C to be 1. To make it simple I'll let all those 9 individual resistances be 1 too. Because of the symmetry, the potential at B has got to be ½. (It must be ½ at D too, but I won't use that.) By the symmetry the current in EB must equal that in BF. (The previous statement also couldn't be true if this one were not also). There is, so to speak, no redistribution of current at node B. So the node B could equally well not be there, you can detach the upper E-F pathway from it and it makes no difference to any current or potential. So the problem reduces to one of two parallel pathways; the lower pathhway has a section with three parallel pathways within it. Not difficult. I get the circuit resistance to be 10/9. If all the individual resistances are R, that would be the circuit resistance is (10/9)R.
image.jpg

If and when this is right there are interesting extensions and generalisations I believe.
 
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