How to know here on what variable its a derivative of(diff)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of derivatives in the context of a differential equation involving multiple variables, specifically focusing on the relationship between the variables x, y, and a substitution variable z defined as a function of x.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of defining z as a function of x and question why the derivative z' is interpreted as a derivative with respect to y in the textbook. There is a focus on the mathematical steps taken to derive relationships between the derivatives and the variables involved.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively questioning the reasoning behind the interpretations of derivatives, with some attempting to clarify the mathematical relationships and others expressing confusion about the steps taken. There appears to be a productive exchange of ideas regarding the substitution and its implications for the differential equation.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing discussion about the definitions and relationships between the variables, particularly concerning the assumptions made about the dependency of z on x and y. The complexity of the differential equation and the substitutions involved are noted as potential sources of confusion.

proto
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[tex](2x^2ylny-x)y'=y[/tex]
[tex](2x^2ylny-x)dy=ydx[/tex]
then i divide both sides by dy
[tex](2x^2ylny-x)=yx'[/tex]
then i divide both sides by y
[tex](2x^2lny-\frac{x}{y})=x'[/tex]
[tex]x'+\frac{x}{y}=2x^2lny[/tex]
so i have here a bernuly foruma
i divide both sides by [tex]x^2[/tex]
[tex]\frac{x'}{x^2}+\frac{1}{xy}=2lny[/tex]
[tex]z=x^{-1}[/tex]
[tex]z'=-1x^{-2}x'[/tex]
[tex]-z'+\frac{z}{y}=2ln y[/tex]

z is defined to be a function of x
so [tex]z'=\frac{dz}{dx}[/tex]
why the book interprets [tex]z'=\frac{dz}{dy}[/tex]
??

z is linked to y not in a direct way .
but z linked to x in a direct way
z and x are more close to each other.

i can't see a mathematical way of figuring it out
its all intuition.and i my intuition is very bad
 
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[tex]\frac{dz}{dx} = -\frac{1}{x^2}[/tex]
[tex]dz = -\frac{1}{x^2} dx[/tex]
[tex]\frac{dz}{dy} = -\frac{1}{x^2} \frac{dx}{dy}[/tex]
 
z=x'
z'=-x^(-2)x'

i can't undestand how you cameup with the first step
[tex] \frac{dz}{dx} = -\frac{1}{x^2}[/tex]

i can't understand what are you doing here?
 
and your conclution
doesn't show that z is a derivative by y
it shows that z' is a derivative by x
 
What I was doing up there was proving mathematically that [tex]\frac{x'}{x^2}[/tex] necessary equals [tex]-\frac{dz}{dy}[/tex]. The 1st step was obtained from your substitution variable [tex]z = x^{-1}[/tex].

On a more intuitive basis, what are you attempting to do when performing the substitution? It's to simplify the DE via substituting x with a new variable z, and thus why would there be a dx lying around after you have completed your substitution? If [tex]z' = \frac{dz}{dx}[/tex], then how are you going to solve [tex]-z'+\frac{z}{y}=2ln y[/tex]? You now have what, three variables?
 
proto said:
z is defined to be a function of x
so [tex]z'=\frac{dz}{dx}[/tex]
why the book interprets [tex]z'=\frac{dz}{dy}[/tex]

Because you defined it that way, right here:
proto said:
[tex]z=x^{-1}[/tex]
[tex]z'=-1x^{-2}x'[/tex]

In the first line you defined z to be a function of x. In the second, you defined z' to be in a derivative of the same variable as used for x' -- which was y.
 

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