Ideal Gas Under A (Complex) Reversible Process

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around an ideal gas undergoing a complex reversible process represented in stages on a P-V diagram. The stages include isobaric, isochoric, and isothermal processes, with specific volume and pressure relations provided. Participants are tasked with finding the total heat received by the gas and the change in enthalpy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the need to clarify the definitions of the stages involved in the process. There are attempts to calculate pressures and volumes at various points, but some express confusion over the relationships and the implications of the problem setup. Questions arise regarding the nature of the work done during the process and how to approach the calculations without certain variables.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided clarifications on the types of processes involved and suggested plotting the points on a P-V diagram to visualize the relationships better. There is an ongoing exploration of how to calculate work and heat without specific values for temperature or the number of moles, indicating a productive direction in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem may not require the use of certain equations related to the energy of an ideal gas, as it is positioned before that topic in their studies. There is also mention of potential constraints regarding the information available for solving the problem.

memnoch3434
Messages
2
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


An ideal gas undergoes a reversible process 1-2-3-4-5. The stage from 1-2 as well as isobaric 2-3 and isochoric 4-5 stages are represented by linear segments. The Stage 2-3 is isothermal. The following relations are true:

V_2=2*V_1
p_2=1.5*p_1
V_3=4*V_1
V_4=6*V_1
T_5=T_1

The initial states are V_1=3m^3 and p_1 = 2.5 atm.
Assuming that the internal energy of an ideal gas depends only on temperature, find the total heat received by the gas during the entire process also find change in enthalpy (H_1-H_5).



Homework Equations



pv=nRT

dw=p(v)dv

dw=pdv (isobaric)

dw=nRT*ln(v_f-v_i) isothermic

Q=U+W

H=U+pV

U=n*c_v*T+n*u_0 *****

The Attempt at a Solution



So far I have calculated all the pressures and volumes for all points (in atm and m^3):
P_1=3
V_1=2.5
p_2=3.75
V_2=6
p_3=1.875
V_3=12
p_4=1.875
V_4=18
p_5=5/12
V_5=18

After that I started trying to find either n or T, but I am guessing the point of the problem is to solve it without those. So moving on to find Q total, I noticed that without T, this problem involves at least 4 unknowns. So my troubles come in calculating the work from 1-2 since pressure is non constant and not any special type of process, and from eliminating n and T from the equation for q total.

****This is also the chapter in the book before we talk about the energy of an ideal gas, so I am assuming that we are not to use that equation, but just in case there it is.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You need to clarify what stages are isobaric, isochoric, isothermal, adiabatic, etc. better. I'm royally confused.

Linear segments on what type of plot?
 
Last edited:
Sorry about that just tried to copy the problem word for word. But looks like I made a mistake typing, sorry about that.

Isochoric- 4-5
Isobaric- 3-4
Isothermal- 2-3
No specified adiabatic processes.

The plot is a P-V diagram.
 
memnoch3434 said:

Homework Statement


An ideal gas undergoes a reversible process 1-2-3-4-5. The stage from 1-2 as well as isobaric 2-3 and isochoric 4-5 stages are represented by linear segments. The Stage 2-3 is isothermal. The following relations are true:

V_2=2*V_1
p_2=1.5*p_1
V_3=4*V_1
V_4=6*V_1
T_5=T_1

The initial states are V_1=3m^3 and p_1 = 2.5 atm.
Assuming that the internal energy of an ideal gas depends only on temperature, find the total heat received by the gas during the entire process also find change in enthalpy (H_1-H_5).



Homework Equations



pv=nRT

dw=p(v)dv

dw=pdv (isobaric)

dw=nRT*ln(v_f-v_i) isothermic

Q=U+W

H=U+pV

U=n*c_v*T+n*u_0 *****

The Attempt at a Solution



So far I have calculated all the pressures and volumes for all points (in atm and m^3):
P_1=3
V_1=2.5
p_2=3.75
V_2=6
p_3=1.875
V_3=12
p_4=1.875
V_4=18
p_5=5/12
V_5=18

After that I started trying to find either n or T, but I am guessing the point of the problem is to solve it without those. So moving on to find Q total, I noticed that without T, this problem involves at least 4 unknowns. So my troubles come in calculating the work from 1-2 since pressure is non constant and not any special type of process, and from eliminating n and T from the equation for q total.

****This is also the chapter in the book before we talk about the energy of an ideal gas, so I am assuming that we are not to use that equation, but just in case there it is.


By the end of your last chapter, I assume it discussed Cv and Cp. Because unless it avoided the adiabatic equation pV^γ = constant, it had to mention that γ = Cp/Cv.

By definition, Cv =∂U/∂T|V but since U = U(T only), then Cv = dU/dT.


My first suggestion is to plot all your p's and V's on your p-V diagram.
Then: what is ∆W on a p-V diagram when any two states are plotted?
Can you readily see what ∫pdV and ∫Vdp are on your diagram?

Combine the plot with dU = dQ - dW and pV = nRT and you can proceed step-by-step thru all 5 states & arrive at ∆U.

Then of course ∆H is immediately available since you now know p5 and V5.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
2K