Internal pressure due to vessel collapse

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the internal pressure changes in a plastic vessel filled with an incompressible fluid (water) when the vessel is impacted and crushed on one side. Participants explore the implications of this scenario, including the calculation of pressure increase as a function of displaced fluid, and the mechanical behavior of the vessel under stress.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the scenario of a plastic vessel being crushed and suggests that the incompressible fluid will exert pressure on all surfaces, potentially leading to an increase in internal pressure.
  • Another participant notes that calculations regarding pressure increase would likely be dominated by the strength of the container walls, comparing a SCUBA tank to a water balloon in terms of pressure tolerance.
  • A further contribution proposes analyzing the problem under the assumption of a gradually applied load rather than an impact, emphasizing the need for differential force balances and the mechanical properties of the vessel material.
  • One participant mentions the complexity of the analysis, including the need for finite element stress analysis and understanding the failure behavior of the vessel material.
  • A separate query about calculating differential pressure in a pressure vessel is introduced, but another participant suggests starting a new thread for that question.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the approach to calculating internal pressure changes, with some focusing on the material properties and others on the nature of the loading (impact vs. gradual). The discussion remains unresolved regarding specific methods for calculation and the implications of the vessel's material behavior.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of analyzing the mechanical behavior of the vessel under stress, including the need for specific material properties and failure criteria, which are not fully established in the conversation.

NMadura
Hey All,
I have a plastic vessel fully filled filled with an incompressible fluid (Water), at some time this vessel is impacted and crushed on one side (say 5% of the initial volume is lost).

Only, I know the volume isn't lost, the fluid (being incompressible) will exert pressure on all surfaces of my vessel causing the vessel to expand (where it isn't being crushed) and the pressure of the fluid will increase.

Is there a way of calculating this increase in pressure (maybe as a function of displaced fluid)?

In my mind I picture this as a water balloon on a flat surface, as I push my hand down on the middle of the balloon the water moves to areas not being compressed, eventually the maximum stress of the material is reached and the balloon material fails. How would one predict the internal pressure of the fluid?

Thanks for any help.
 
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:welcome:

I would expect any such calculation to be dominated by the strength of the container walls.

A SCUBA tank would permit much higher pressure before bursting than a water balloon.
 
NMadura said:
Hey All,
I have a plastic vessel fully filled filled with an incompressible fluid (Water), at some time this vessel is impacted and crushed on one side (say 5% of the initial volume is lost).

Only, I know the volume isn't lost, the fluid (being incompressible) will exert pressure on all surfaces of my vessel causing the vessel to expand (where it isn't being crushed) and the pressure of the fluid will increase.

Is there a way of calculating this increase in pressure (maybe as a function of displaced fluid)?

In my mind I picture this as a water balloon on a flat surface, as I push my hand down on the middle of the balloon the water moves to areas not being compressed, eventually the maximum stress of the material is reached and the balloon material fails. How would one predict the internal pressure of the fluid?

Thanks for any help.
Suppose the loading were applied gradually, rather than as an impact. This would be one way of starting to analyze the problem. If you can't solve the problem for a gradually applied load, you certainly won't be able to do it for an impactful load. The deformation of the vessel would have to be analyzed, under the constraint that the fluid is only slightly compressible (and described by the bulk modulus of the liquid). The analysis would involve differential force balances on small parcels of the vessel wall, based on the stress equilibrium equation (equilibrium differential force balance). The hard part of this is that, to do the calculation, one would need to study and quantify the mechanical constitutive behavior (stress/strain/displacement) of the material comprising the vessel wall, including large deformations (beyond the elastic limit) and displacements. Calculations like this can and are done, typically using Finite Element stress analysis. In addition to all this, one would also need to quantify the failure behavior of the vessel material in terms of a properly formulated failure criterion. In short, it's doable, but it ain't easy.
 
Can someone help me on these.
Pressure vessel with different pressure & temperature for shell side, jacket side & coil side. How to calculate the differential pressure? I need for minimum thickness calculation.
 
It would be better to start a fresh thread for this question .

When you have done that then please tell us much more about the practical problem that you are trying to solve
 
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