Is Solid State Physics a useful class for Materials Engineering?

[Copar]

Or does it have specific use cases, such as quantum research or the semiconductor industry?

 

[Telescopic]

"Solid state physics is important to many of today's technologies including LEDs, MOSFET transistors, solar cells, lasers, digital cameras, data storage and processing ... the fundamentals of solid state physics to modern materials, such as graphene, photonic and metamaterials, superconducting magnets, high-temperature superconductors and topological insulators."

This is parts of a summary from a book called "Introduction to Solid State Physics for Materials Engineers" by Emil Zolotoyabko

Maybe it would help?
You can find the book at Introduction to Solid State Physics For Material Engineers
~Telescopic

 

[pines-demon]

Or does it have specific use cases, such as quantum research or the semiconductor industry?

Materials science is fundamentally solid state physics (unless you are doing some soft matter stuff). It can be useful for metallurgy, electric and thermal conduction, compression, magnetism and much more.

 

[Baluncore]

Solid State Physics is not useful for Materials Engineering, it is essential.

 

[Copar]

Solid State Physics is not useful for Materials Engineering, it is essential.

My college does not have it as a requirement, it's an elective through the physics department. What do you think about that?

 

[Baluncore]

My college does not have it as a requirement, it's an elective through the physics department. What do you think about that?

Then I think it must be covered under another name in the more practical materials engineering course.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_physics

 

[pines-demon]

My college does not have it as a requirement, it's an elective through the physics department. What do you think about that?

We can keep guessing what the courses in your college contain but it would be better if you check the syllabus and tell us.

 

[Astronuc]

Or does it have specific use cases, such as quantum research or the semiconductor industry?

Solid State Physics is not only useful for Materials Engineering, it is essential.

I modified the response.

"Solid state physics" focuses specifically on the properties of solid materials, and it is a subset of "condensed matter physics", which encompasses a broader study of the properties of all "condensed" phases of matter, including both solids and liquids; essentially, solid state physics is more narrowly focused on the behavior of solids, while condensed matter physics looks at the fundamental mechanisms behind the behavior of matter in a dense state, including solids and liquids, often with a focus on the interactions between particles within the material. - a reasonable statement generated by Google's AI.

Materials engineering, or applied materials science, is a broad area in itself. Certainly, many physical objects are solid, but they could contain liquids, or perhaps interact with liquids/gases in the environment.

Since the subject is 'engineering', one might also look at manufacturing processes used to create the material, whether it is a ceramic, semi-conductor, alloy, or some combination. How a material is manufactured from constituent elements is critical with respect to composition (and homogeneity, or inhomogeneity) and microstructure, which in turns affects performance in the intended environment.

So courses in solid state physics or condensed matter physics can be important to one's understanding of the broader field as it affects one's particular interest. In this day and age, it helps to have broader and fundamental understanding of the physics of a material.

 

[CrysPhys]

* @Copar. Your profile lists country as US. Are you studying at a university in the US? If so, is your major actually materials engineering? In the US, most materials programs are integrated materials science and engineering (MSE) programs; although there are still separate materials science and separate materials engineering programs.

* What year are you in? What physics and math courses have you taken, or will be required to take? In many universities, solid-state physics is a junior-level course (after mechanics, E&M, quantum mechanics, thermodynamics and statistical mechanics). What are the prerequisites for the solid-state physics course at your university?

* Do you have any notion where your interests lie? E.g., traditional heat 'em and beat 'em processing? Or novel nanomaterials? Or ...?

* Do you plan to get a job after your bachelor's? Or do you plan to go for a masters or PhD?

* I got my undergrad, masters, and PhD in physics, specializing in solid-state physics. But I took many free electives (undergrad and grad), in materials science and engineering. In many instances, it's easier for a physics major to take MSE electives than for an MSE major to take physics electives. But it's a potent combo.

* I can give you better guidance after you answer my questions above.

 

[Copar]

* @Copar. Your profile lists country as US. Are you studying at a university in the US? If so, is your major actually materials engineering? In the US, most materials programs are integrated materials science and engineering (MSE) programs; although there are still separate materials science and separate materials engineering programs.

It is Materials Engineering, in the department of engineering, ABET accredited. US.

* What year are you in? What physics and math courses have you taken, or will be required to take? In many universities, solid-state physics is a junior-level course (after mechanics, E&M, quantum mechanics, thermodynamics and statistical mechanics). What are the prerequisites for the solid-state physics course at your university?

I am coming up on the end of my junior year. I will likely be here for 1.5 more years.

I took a general physics series and Modern Physics I, covering the Schroedinger equation, special relativity, etc.

Math classes include a calculus series, a class in linear algebra, and a class in ordinary differential equations.
The prereqisites for Solid State at my college are Modern Physics I, linear algebra, and ordinary differential equations. I have completed these prerequisites.

* Do you have any notion where your interests lie? E.g., traditional heat 'em and beat 'em processing? Or novel nanomaterials? Or ...?

I have been really interested in mathematical modelling of materials lately (FEA). I am currently involved in a metallurgy research project, I am enjoying that too.

* Do you plan to get a job after your bachelor's? Or do you plan to go for a masters or PhD?

I would love to get a PHD! I'm all about learning new things.

Since the subject is 'engineering', one might also look at manufacturing processes used to create the material, whether it is a ceramic, semi-conductor, alloy, or some combination. How a material is manufactured from constituent elements is critical with respect to composition (and homogeneity, or inhomogeneity) and microstructure, which in turns affects performance in the intended environment.

So courses in solid state physics or condensed matter physics can be important to one's understanding of the broader field as it affects one's particular interest. In this day and age, it helps to have broader and fundamental understanding of the physics of a material.

This makes me think that I should take the Solid State class, if it has a broad applicability to MSE fields besides semiconductors. As well, It would obviously be useful for nanomaterials, and I plan on taking that as an elective.


My degree is not very theoretical, by design. It's very experimental, having me use expensive lab equipment and learning software and knowledge that an materials engineer would find useful. Do you think this will effect my ability to get into Grad school?

 

[CrysPhys]

It is Materials Engineering, in the department of engineering, ABET accredited. US.


I am coming up on the end of my junior year. I will likely be here for 1.5 more years.

I took a general physics series and Modern Physics I, covering the Schroedinger equation, special relativity, etc.

Math classes include a calculus series, a class in linear algebra, and a class in ordinary differential equations.
The prereqisites for Solid State at my college are Modern Physics I, linear algebra, and ordinary differential equations. I have completed these prerequisites.


I have been really interested in mathematical modelling of materials lately (FEA). I am currently involved in a metallurgy research project, I am enjoying that too.


I would love to get a PHD! I'm all about learning new things.



This makes me think that I should take the Solid State class, if it has a broad applicability to MSE fields besides semiconductors. As well, It would obviously be useful for nanomaterials, and I plan on taking that as an elective.


My degree is not very theoretical, by design. It's very experimental, having me use expensive lab equipment and learning software and knowledge that an materials engineer would find useful. Do you think this will effect my ability to get into Grad school?

Based on these responses, I would recommend that you take the solid-state physics course. As an alternative, does the Materials Engineering Dept at your university offer a course similar to the following one offered at the MIT MSE Dept?

3.033 Electronic, Optical and Magnetic Properties of Materials

Prereq: 3.010 and 3.020
U (Fall)
12 Units

Uses fundamental principles of quantum mechanics, solid state physics, electricity and magnetism to describe how the electronic, optical and magnetic properties of materials originate. Illustrates how these properties can be designed for particular applications, such as diodes, solar cells, optical fibers, and magnetic data storage. Involves experimentation using spectroscopy, resistivity, impedance and magnetometry measurements, behavior of light in waveguides, and other characterization methods. Uses practical examples to investigate structure-property relationships.

J. LeBeau

 

[CrysPhys]

I am coming up on the end of my junior year. I will likely be here for 1.5 more years.

would love to get a PHD! I'm all about learning new things.

My degree is not very theoretical, by design. It's very experimental, having me use expensive lab equipment and learning software and knowledge that an materials engineer would find useful. Do you think this will effect my ability to get into Grad school?

Start looking now at candidate grad school programs, check out their requirements for admission, and see if you have any holes that need to be filled.

 

[Copar]

Based on these responses, I would recommend that you take the solid-state physics course. As an alternative, does the Materials Engineering Dept at your university offer a course similar to the following one offered at the MIT MSE Dept?

3.033 Electronic, Optical and Magnetic Properties of Materials

Prereq: 3.010 and 3.020
U (Fall)
12 Units

Uses fundamental principles of quantum mechanics, solid state physics, electricity and magnetism to describe how the electronic, optical and magnetic properties of materials originate. Illustrates how these properties can be designed for particular applications, such as diodes, solar cells, optical fibers, and magnetic data storage. Involves experimentation using spectroscopy, resistivity, impedance and magnetometry measurements, behavior of light in waveguides, and other characterization methods. Uses practical examples to investigate structure-property relationships.

J. LeBeau

It does not, I'll take the solid state course.

 

[CrysPhys]

It does not, I'll take the solid state course.

In that case, wise move. Good luck on your future studies and research.

 

[elias001]

@Copar if you open an introductory text in material science/engineering. Solid state materials is one of the class of materials that get significant amount of coverage, since they are called semiconductors.....

 

[CrysPhys]

@Copar if you open an introductory text in material science/engineering. Solid state materials is one of the class of materials that get significant amount of coverage, since they are called semiconductors.....

??? Semiconductors comprise a small subset of solid-state materials.

 

[elias001]

@CrysPhys I am just stating what I have seen in multiple intro to materials science texts. I think since it has significant industrial applications, it must be important for them to include it.

 

[CrysPhys]

I am just stating what I have seen in multiple intro to materials science texts. I think since it has significant industrial applications, it must be important for them to include it.

if you open an introductory text in material science/engineering. Solid state materials is one of the class of materials that get significant amount of coverage, since they are called semiconductors.....

<<Emphasis added.>> I don't know what texts you're looking at. Semiconductors are indeed a class of solid-state materials with substantial industrial applications. But not all solid-state materials are "called semiconductors", since, as I wrote above, semiconductors comprise a small subset of solid-state materials.

 

[elias001]

Materials Science and Engineering An Introduction by: David Rethwisch and William Callister

The Science and Engineering of materials by Donald R. Askeland

Engineering Materials Science by Milton Ohring

I did not claim that in the material science and engineering texts I have come across that semiconductors is the only materials that s discussed in solid state materials. I only stated that solid state materials are always discussed in the materials science texts that i have seen, and semiconductors are one of the examples that is always included. I was trying to answer whether you should take a solid state materials/physics course for your material science/engineering program. I am letting you know whether solid state materials is included in an introductory textbook. I am hoping that should give you useful information where you can make an informed decision. From what I have seen, there is also solid state chemistry. I am not sure how relevant that will be to your future academic goals.

 

[WWGD]

It is Materials Engineering, in the department of engineering, ABET accredited. US.


<Snip>





I would love to get a PHD! I'm all about learning new things.

<Snip>

I don't mean to discourage you but in a PHD you will, after a few months, be focusing on a single topic , problem to a total degree, rather than learning new topics.

 

[CrysPhys]

I don't mean to discourage you but in a PHD you will, after a few months, be focusing on a single topic , problem to a total degree, rather than learning new topics.

I don't know which country you're in. But in the US, I would disagree. Here, you typically can enter a PhD program upon completion of a bachelor's degree. You will typically take graduate-level courses for two years, covering both fundamentals and specialized topics, with the option of advanced seminars in later years.

And if the PhD research is experimental, you can (depending on your specific program, of course) learn a large host of topics. Just to clarify, I'm using "topics" more generally, not just "the topic" of the thesis. For example, if the PhD research concerns a novel optoelectronic device, you could learn device fabrication (e.g., substrate preparation, thin film growth, photolithography, etching), materials characterization (e.g., optical microscopy, electron microscopy, X-Ray diffraction), and device characterization (e.g., optical spectroscopy). Along the way you could also learn fundamental technologies (e.g., electronic instrumentation, computerized controls, vacuum technology, cryogenics). In addition, if your research cannot be performed with off-the-shelf equipment, you might need to design and construct novel apparatus. Add to the above, data analysis and, in some instances, modelling and computer simulation. Of course, what you actually choose to learn is up to you and your advisor.

A comprehensive PhD program in materials science and engineering can provide you with the skills and experience for a career in a variety of industries. Which is a good thing, since the vast majority of PhDs will not land academic careers.

 

[CrysPhys]

Materials Science and Engineering An Introduction by: David Rethwisch and William Callister

The Science and Engineering of materials by Donald R. Askeland

Engineering Materials Science by Milton Ohring

I did not claim that in the material science and engineering texts I have come across that semiconductors is the only materials that s discussed in solid state materials. I only stated that solid state materials are always discussed in the materials science texts that i have seen, and semiconductors are one of the examples that is always included. I was trying to answer whether you should take a solid state materials/physics course for your material science/engineering program. I am letting you know whether solid state materials is included in an introductory textbook. I am hoping that should give you useful information where you can make an informed decision. From what I have seen, there is also solid state chemistry. I am not sure how relevant that will be to your future academic goals.

It's not worthwhile pursuing this further, since there has been good agreement that a course in solid-state physics will have value for the OP. But I would like to point out that your post here is inconsistent with your original post. Or perhaps your original post was too muddled to express your actual intent accurately, and your post here does express your actual intent accurately. In which case, all is good.

 

[elias001]

@CrysPhys if what i wrote come across as inconsistent, that is on me. I see what you mean by how I phrased it.

 

[CrysPhys]

@CrysPhys if what i wrote come across as inconsistent, that is on me. I see what you mean by how I phrased it.

No problem. What's important is that the OP receives accurate information on which to base a decision, and your follow-up post provides that.

 

[weirdoguy]

But in the US, I would disagree.

Yes, and PhD in US takes years to finish. E.g. in Poland it takes 4 years, but you have to have masters degree beforehand. So I guess @WWGD comment was more suited for someone in that type of country.

 

[WWGD]

I don't know which country you're in. But in the US, I would disagree. Here, you typically can enter a PhD program upon completion of a bachelor's degree. You will typically take graduate-level courses for two years, covering both fundamentals and specialized topics, with the option of advanced seminars in later years.

And if the PhD research is experimental, you can (depending on your specific program, of course) learn a large host of topics. Just to clarify, I'm using "topics" more generally, not just "the topic" of the thesis. For example, if the PhD research concerns a novel optoelectronic device, you could learn device fabrication (e.g., substrate preparation, thin film growth, photolithography, etching), materials characterization (e.g., optical microscopy, electron microscopy, X-Ray diffraction), and device characterization (e.g., optical spectroscopy). Along the way you could also learn fundamental technologies (e.g., electronic instrumentation, computerized controls, vacuum technology, cryogenics). In addition, if your research cannot be performed with off-the-shelf equipment, you might need to design and construct novel apparatus. Add to the above, data analysis and, in some instances, modelling and computer simulation. Of course, what you actually choose to learn is up to you and your advisor.

A comprehensive PhD program in materials science and engineering can provide you with the skills and experience for a career in a variety of industries. Which is a good thing, since the vast majority of PhDs will not land academic careers.

True, but you will run into topics like those you listes while, in the process of solving your thesis/dissertation problem and not because you somehow found them interesting . At least that was the case in my US program.

 

[CrysPhys]

True, but you will run into topics like those you listes while, in the process of solving your thesis/dissertation problem and not because you somehow found them interesting . At least that was the case in my US program.

Your profile states that you're working towards a PhD in math [though I'm not sure I understand the entries in your profile correctly.]. Did you start in another major, did not find the various required tasks interesting, and then switched to a more narrowly focussed field? In which case, it was your choice to narrow the topics you chose to pursue, rather than the PhD program did not present a variety of topics to pursue.

I personally found all the various topics in my experimental physics PhD program interesting (and the majority satisfying and fun; otherwise, I would have quit). And the diversity of skills and experiences I acquired was a real advantage later in my career when I had to change fields many times in response to changes in the job market. But to each, his own.

 

[WWGD]

Well, it's a complicated story and I haven't updated my profile in a long while. My point is that the interesting things I indeed ran into , turned around finishing my thesis work and not because I went around looking for interesting things. I get the impression we're not understanding each other here. I agree in most PhD programs you will run into a lot of interesting things, but as part of the process of finishing one's thesis/dissertation/project , but not as the result of wondering about somewhat randomly looking for interesting things. Edit: If you were doing in your thesis, in, say (not being a Physicist) Super-Conductivity, you would run into interesting issues, topics, _in the process of solving your thesis problem_. You would not be going about going about and exploring things that seemed interesting to you that somehow you ran into more casually, but only as the results , issues that came about as a result of solving your thesis. I meant, don't expect in most Graduate programs to hop around, doing, Quantum Computing for a bit, then dropping it and doing something in Superconductivity , then going into researching Topological Qubits for Quantum Computing. Rather, IMO, experience, you will have, eventually, a specific topic you will work in/with, where you willl be expected to answer a question. Upon answering this question, you will run into several other sub-questions and related issues which will be interesting. But maybe I'm not being clear. It's not a crucial issue towards this discussion, so we may just drop it. TL; Dr, don't expect to cherry-pick and jump around topics that interest you in most Graduate programs, as you're expected to become a specialist, rather than a generalist, unlike during your Undergraduate studies.

Your profile states that you're working towards a PhD in math [though I'm not sure I understand the entries in your profile correctly.]. Did you start in another major, did not find the various required tasks interesting, and then switched to a more narrowly focussed field? In which case, it was your choice to narrow the topics you chose to pursue, rather than the PhD program did not present a variety of topics to pursue.

I personally found all the various topics in my experimental physics PhD program interesting (and the majority satisfying and fun). And the diversity of skills and experiences I acquired was a real advantage later in my career when I had to change fields many times in response to changes in the job market. But to each, his own.

 

[CrysPhys]

My point is that the interesting things I indeed ran into , turned around finishing my thesis work and not because I went around looking for interesting things. I get the impression we're not understanding each other here. I agree in most PhD programs you will run into a lot of interesting things, but as part of the process of finishing one's thesis/dissertation/project , but not as the result of wondering about somewhat randomly looking for interesting things.

OK. I understand you better now. But only the OP can tell us whether they will be happy if they have the opportunity to learn a variety of "new things" in the course of completing a single thesis; or whether they insist on the freedom to pursue any random topic of interest to them. The OP merely expressed this desire:

I would love to get a PHD! I'm all about learning new things.

Whereas your first post indicated that a PhD program would be limited to only one new thing (which could be alarming):

I don't mean to discourage you but in a PHD you will, after a few months, be focusing on a single topic , problem to a total degree, rather than learning new topics.

So you and I have different perspectives, and our discussion should be of value for the OP to ponder.