Magnetic field behind “invisible barrier”

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a thought experiment involving the behavior of magnetic fields at the interface between free space and a material with specific electromagnetic properties. Participants explore the implications of Ampere's law in different media, particularly focusing on the presence or absence of magnetic fields in the material based on its permeability and the conditions at the boundary with free space.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant posits that a magnetic field should be generated inside a material with different permeability compared to free space, based on the boundary conditions of Ampere's law.
  • Another participant argues that if the material has the same parameters as free space, there should be no magnetic field inside, suggesting an "invisible barrier" effect.
  • A different viewpoint challenges the first assertion by stating that the magnetic field inside the material does not have to be zero, even if the curl of the magnetic field is zero.
  • Numerical simulations mentioned by a participant indicate that the magnetic field in the material is nonzero when the relative permeability differs from one, and becomes zero when it matches that of free space.
  • There is a discussion about the properties of perfect diamagnets and their ability to exclude magnetic fields, highlighting the differences between such materials and vacuum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of magnetic fields in materials with varying permeability. There is no consensus on whether a magnetic field exists inside a material with the same electromagnetic parameters as free space, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves assumptions about the nature of the materials and the conditions applied in the thought experiment, including the implications of boundary conditions and the definitions of permeability and magnetization.

Tilde90
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Let us consider the following thought experiment.
There is a magnetic field in free space produced by a steady current, hence solution of the (magnetostatic) Ampere's law Curl H = J.
There is also a material with some parameters ε and μ and no currents, where the Ampere's law is Curl H = 0.

Considering the usual interface conditions on the boundary between the auxiliary material and the free space, inside the material I expect to see a magnetic field generated by the change in permeability μ.
On the other hand, if the material had the same parameters of the free space, ε0 and μ0, I expect to see no field inside: it is as if there were an invisible barrier which shields a region of the free space from the outside.

Is my reasoning correct?
 
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Tilde90 said:
On the other hand, if the material had the same parameters of the free space, ε0 and μ0, I expect to see no field inside
You should expect a field in it - the same field the vacuum there would have without the material. That is given by the continuum conditions but it is also very intuitive I think.
 
Thanks for your answer, mfb.

Are you sure about what you say? The fact is that the right-hand side of the Ampere's law is different between the free space and the auxiliary material, and it is equal to zero in the latter. So the only source of the magnetic field in the material would be the magnetization induced by the change in permeability, which does not exist in this thought experiment.

Running some numerical simulations you see that the field in the material is nonzero when the relative permeability is different from 1, and becomes 0 otherwise (with the field outside also going to zero on the surface to match the boundary conditions).
 
The curl of the magnetic field is zero in your material. The magnetic field itself does not have to be zero.
That is exactly what you get in vacuum as well.

If you don't have any source of magnetic fields in the whole universe, there won't be a field in your material, but you were asking about a "barrier", so I assume there is a field somewhere.

A perfect diamagnet will keep all magnetic fields outside its material, but a perfect diamagnet (##\mu_v=0##) has properties different from a vacuum.
 

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