Millikan Experiment Based Marble Mass Homework

In summary, the conversation involved arranging masses in ascending order and finding the average mass of marbles. The average of the differences in mass was also calculated and the resulting mass of one marble was found to be 20.33 g, which does not make sense. The question also mentioned that there is a maximum of 5-6 marbles in one container and the empty container weighs at least 3 g. The conversation then delved into determining the number of marbles in different containers based on their masses and the possibility of having two marbles in a container of 11g. The discussion ended with the suggestion to think logically and the mentioning of Millikan's experiment involving oil droplets with varying electrical charge.
  • #1
orangegalaxies
50
16
Homework Statement
Determine the mass of one marble and the container, given the mass of 10 different containers that contain an unknown number of marbles in them. After finding the mass of one marble, and the empty container, use this data to find how many marbles were in each container.

I then have to answer these questions
- Would having more containers make this easier?
- Would having a large variety of quantity make this easier?
- How does this relate to Millikan's experiment?
- What are some sources of error?
Relevant Equations
I don't believe I require any equations to solve this problem except the average one:
Average = sum of numbers/number of numbers
I arranged the masses in ascending order:
11.0 g
11.1 g
20.6 g
21.4 g
21.5 g
25.7 g
25.8 g
25.9 g
31.6 g
31.9 g

I found the average mass of the marbles: 22.65 g

I found the difference in masses of the marbles:
0.1 g
9.5 g
0.8 g
0.1 g
4.2 g
0.1 g
0.1 g
5.7 g
0.3 g

I found the average of the differences: 2.32 g

I subtracted both the averages to find the mass of one marble: 20.33 g. This doesn't make sense since the smallest mass of a container + the marbles = 11.0 g. A single marble on its own can't be 20.33 g. Some additional info I got was that there is a maximum of 5-6 marbles in one container and the empty container weighs at least 3 g.

I would really appreciate help on where I went wrong and how I can go about answering the rest of the questions. Thank you!
 
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  • #2
First you need to understand Millikan's experiment and how this process is analogous to Millikan's method. What level course is this for?
 
  • #3
hutchphd said:
First you need to understand Millikan's experiment and how this process is analogous to Millikan's method. What level course is this for?
12th class physics
 
  • #4
orangegalaxies said:
I would really appreciate help on where I went wrong and how I can go about answering the rest of the questions. Thank you!
This is perhaps a tough question, as you may actually have to think about what to do.

First, let's look at these two measurements:

orangegalaxies said:
11.0 g
11.1 g

What do you think about that?
 
  • #5
PeroK said:
This is perhaps a tough question, as you may actually have to think about what to do.

First, let's look at these two measurements:
What do you think about that?
The difference in their masses is very small
 
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  • #6
orangegalaxies said:
The difference in their masses is very small
That's a statement of fact. What do you think about that fact?
 
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  • #7
orangegalaxies said:
I found the average of the differences

Why? What good do you think this will do you? How do you intend to use this number?
 
  • #8
PeroK said:
That's a statement of fact. What do you think about that fact?
Does it probably mean they have the same number of marbles?
 
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  • #9
Vanadium 50 said:
Why? What good do you think this will do you? How do you intend to use this number?
My teacher gave us this hint to get started so I followed it. I don't understand why since the resulting mass is too big
 
  • #10
orangegalaxies said:
Does it probably mean they have the same number of marbles?
Definitely. What about taking a fresh look at all the data you have?
 
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  • #11
PeroK said:
Definitely. What about taking a fresh look at all the data you have?
I see that there are some other masses that have a difference of 0.1 so I can probably assume they also have the same number of marbles, eg:

21.4 g
21.5 g

25.7 g
25.8 g
25.9 g

Is it too much to assume the 11.0 and 11.1 masses contain the minimum number of marbles?
 
  • #12
orangegalaxies said:
I see that there are some other masses that have a difference of 0.1 so I can probably assume they also have the same number of marbles, eg:

21.4 g
21.5 g

25.7 g
25.8 g
25.9 g

Is it too much to assume the 11.0 and 11.1 masses contain the minimum number of marbles?
Does it say anything about there being at least one marble in each case?

Do you think you could have two marbles in a container of approx 11g?
 
  • #13
PeroK said:
Does it say anything about there being at least one marble in each case?

Do you think you could have two marbles in a container of approx 11g?
Yeah I don't see why it can't have two marbles. For sure, each case should have at least one in it.
 
  • #14
orangegalaxies said:
Yeah I don't see why it can't have two marbles. For sure, each case should have at least one in it.
If it has two marbles, what is the most (approx) each could weigh? Remember that the container must be at least 3g.
 
  • #15
PeroK said:
If it has two marbles, what is the most (approx) each could weigh? Remember that the container must be at least 3g.
4g?
 
  • #16
orangegalaxies said:
4g?
So, how many does a container of 31-32g have?
 
  • #17
PeroK said:
So, how many does a container of 31-32g have?
Around 7 marbles? How can we assume the 11g one has 2 marbles though?
 
  • #18
orangegalaxies said:
Around 7 marbles?
Is it allowed to have 7 marbles?

orangegalaxies said:
How can we assume the 11g one has 2 marbles though?
To see whether that's a possibility.
 
  • #19
PeroK said:
Is it allowed to have 7 marbles?To see whether that's a possibility.
Nope ahhh so it's just to test, like theoretical stuff?
 
  • #20
orangegalaxies said:
Nope ahhh so it's just to test, like theoretical stuff?
It's called logic!
 
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  • #21
PeroK said:
It's called logic!
Great! Thanks ~a lot~!
 
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  • #22
It may interest the OP that Millikan had oil droplets whose mass could be measured/estimated that also carried a small electrical charge that varied from perhaps one to as many as 10 or 15 electrons. By seeing how the oil drop responded when placed in an electric field of known value, he was able to determine what the charge was that was on each of the oil drops, with some small but significant uncertainty. The charge that was on each oil drop he determined to be a small integer multiple of ## 1.602 E-19 ## Coulombs. In his original experiment, he did not have 3 decimal place accuracy=his data perhaps was something like this data with the marbles=you need to sift through some experimental error to take an educated guess at what is the most likely mass of each marble.

One item that I think may affect things is that it said the containers were different=there is no guarantee that every one of them is 3 grams.
 
  • #23
Charles Link said:
It may interest the OP that Millikan had oil droplets whose mass could be measured/estimated that also carried a small electrical charge that varied from perhaps one to as many as 10 or 15 electrons. By seeing how the oil drop responded when placed in an electric field of known value, he was able to determine what the charge was that was on each of the oil drops, with some small but significant uncertainty. The charge that was on each oil drop he determined to be a small integer multiple of ## 1.602 E-19 ## Coulombs. In his original experiment, he did not have 3 decimal place accuracy=his data perhaps was something like this data with the marbles=you need to sift through some experimental error to take an educated guess at what is the most likely mass of each marble.

One item that I think may affect things is that it said the containers were different=there is no guarantee that every one of them is 3 grams.
The containers are all the same, it's the number of marbles in them that are different. All the containers were opaque film canisters.
 
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  • #24
PeroK said:
It's called logic!
what do i have to do next?
 
  • #25
This one can be solved with a quick look at the data. Precise refinements take extra work, but you should be able to look over the data quickly, with a pretty good idea of what the mass of one marble is.

Note: There appears to be a large experimental uncertainty in the data that they supplied you with, on the order of +/-.3 grams or thereabouts.
 
  • #26
You are told that there are six or fewer marbles in any (identical) container and that the container mass is at least 3 grams. But your initial guess clearly gives 7 marbles Try again.
 
  • #27
orangegalaxies said:
what do i have to do next?
It helps to be organized.
First group together the containers (if any) that have the same number of marbles to within experimental uncertainty.
Second take all the possible differences between containers that you have identified as having different numbers of marbles. Why take differences and how do they help you guess the mass of one marble?
Third check that your guess is consistent with all the other pieces of information you have. If inconsistent, go back to step 2.
Fourth figure out the mass of the container.
 
  • #28
hutchphd said:
You are told that there are six or fewer marbles in any (identical) container and that the container mass is at least 3 grams. But your initial guess clearly gives 7 marbles Try again.
hmmm okay so for the 31-32 g container, i did 31-3 and then divided this by 4, but this is wrong like you said. I'm not sure as to what else i can do :')
 
  • #29
kuruman said:
It helps to be organized.
First group together the containers (if any) that have the same number of marbles to within experimental uncertainty.
Second take all the possible differences between containers that you have identified as having different numbers of marbles. Why take differences and how do they help you guess the mass of one marble?
Third check that your guess is consistent with all the other pieces of information you have. If inconsistent, go back to step 2.
Fourth figure out the mass of the container.
Step 1: Based on the data, the containers that could have the same number of marbles are the ones that weigh:
11.0 g
11.1 g

21.4 g
21.5 g

25.7 g
25.8 g
25.9 g

Step 2: I already found the differences in mass, could you explain more on what I need to do?
 
  • #30
Please show all the data (where are the 31.5g samples?). Get organized please. Then suppose the marbles are ~4g. Does this work? What is the weight of the empty?
 
  • #31
hutchphd said:
Please show all the data (where are the 31.5g samples?). Get organized please. Then suppose the marbles are ~4g. Does this work? What is the weight of the empty?
Masses of all 10 containers in ascending order:
11.0 g
11.1 g
20.6 g
21.4 g
21.5 g
25.7 g
25.8 g
25.9 g
31.6 g
31.9 g

Largest mass: 31.9 g
Approx weight of one marble: 4 g
Mass of empty container: minimum of 3 g

(31.9 - 3)/4 = 7 marbles in largest container

This is wrong, I don't follow what you are saying, can you please explain?
 
  • #32
orangegalaxies said:
Step 2: I already found the differences in mass, could you explain more on what I need to do?
As I already said,
kuruman said:
Why take differences and how do they help you guess the mass of one marble?
As implied by what I said, what you need to do is first figure out what the difference in masses is equal to and, once you answer that, guess the mass of one marble. The number should be consistent with you already know or is given.
 
  • #33
orangegalaxies said:
hmmm okay so for the 31-32 g container, i did 31-3 and then divided this by 4, but this is wrong like you said. I'm not sure as to what else i can do :')
Why did you do this? Container+marbles masses at 32g. There are at most 6 marbles by question. What is minimum possible mass of container?
 
  • #34
kuruman said:
As I already said,

As implied by what I said, what you need to do is first figure out what the difference in masses is equal to and, once you answer that, guess the mass of one marble. The number should be consistent with you already know or is given.
The difference in masses:
0.1 g
9.5 g
0.8 g
0.1 g
4.2 g
0.1 g
0.1 g
5.7 g
0.3 g

Average difference in masses: 2.32 g

Is this then the mass of one marble? Ahhhh it won't work for the larger marbles so I don't think so
 
  • #35
hutchphd said:
Why did you do this? Container+marbles masses at 32g. There are at most 6 marbles by question. What is minimum possible mass of container?
3 g. Pls chill, I'm new to these concepts, not an expert so I won't be able to understand things unless you explain them. My teacher is crappy and won't explain either.
 
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<h2>1. What is the Millikan Experiment Based Marble Mass Homework?</h2><p>The Millikan Experiment Based Marble Mass Homework is a scientific experiment that involves measuring the mass of a marble using the Millikan oil drop apparatus. This experiment is commonly used in physics and chemistry classes to demonstrate the principles of density and buoyancy.</p><h2>2. How does the Millikan Experiment Based Marble Mass Homework work?</h2><p>The experiment involves suspending a marble in a liquid using the Millikan oil drop apparatus. The mass of the marble is then determined by measuring the buoyant force of the liquid on the marble and using the formula Fb = mg, where Fb is the buoyant force, m is the mass of the marble, and g is the gravitational acceleration.</p><h2>3. What materials are needed for the Millikan Experiment Based Marble Mass Homework?</h2><p>The materials needed for this experiment include a Millikan oil drop apparatus, a marble, a container of liquid (such as water or oil), a balance, and a ruler or caliper for measuring the diameter of the marble.</p><h2>4. What is the significance of the Millikan Experiment Based Marble Mass Homework?</h2><p>This experiment is significant because it demonstrates the principles of density and buoyancy, which are important concepts in physics and chemistry. It also allows students to practice using scientific equipment and making accurate measurements.</p><h2>5. What are some possible sources of error in the Millikan Experiment Based Marble Mass Homework?</h2><p>Some possible sources of error in this experiment include inaccuracies in measuring the diameter of the marble, variations in the density of the liquid, and errors in reading the balance. It is important to repeat the experiment multiple times and take an average to reduce the impact of these errors.</p>

1. What is the Millikan Experiment Based Marble Mass Homework?

The Millikan Experiment Based Marble Mass Homework is a scientific experiment that involves measuring the mass of a marble using the Millikan oil drop apparatus. This experiment is commonly used in physics and chemistry classes to demonstrate the principles of density and buoyancy.

2. How does the Millikan Experiment Based Marble Mass Homework work?

The experiment involves suspending a marble in a liquid using the Millikan oil drop apparatus. The mass of the marble is then determined by measuring the buoyant force of the liquid on the marble and using the formula Fb = mg, where Fb is the buoyant force, m is the mass of the marble, and g is the gravitational acceleration.

3. What materials are needed for the Millikan Experiment Based Marble Mass Homework?

The materials needed for this experiment include a Millikan oil drop apparatus, a marble, a container of liquid (such as water or oil), a balance, and a ruler or caliper for measuring the diameter of the marble.

4. What is the significance of the Millikan Experiment Based Marble Mass Homework?

This experiment is significant because it demonstrates the principles of density and buoyancy, which are important concepts in physics and chemistry. It also allows students to practice using scientific equipment and making accurate measurements.

5. What are some possible sources of error in the Millikan Experiment Based Marble Mass Homework?

Some possible sources of error in this experiment include inaccuracies in measuring the diameter of the marble, variations in the density of the liquid, and errors in reading the balance. It is important to repeat the experiment multiple times and take an average to reduce the impact of these errors.

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