Construction My Storm Shelter: Summer Project w/ Dog Kennels & Lights

[dlgoff]

TL;DR Summary

My Summer Job

This is what I've been working on this summer; a storm shelter.

To keep the deer off, I put two 10' dog kennels around it.

front:

back:

electrical service with motion detector flood lights:

 

[hutchphd]

Why are the deer an issue?

 

[Baluncore]

Why do you have lights?
What is the source of the power?
Will your wooden light pole survive?
Does the door open inwards or outwards?
How will you get out once the dog kennel or caravan has fallen across the entrance?

 

[berkeman]

Summary:: My Summer Job

a storm shelter.

To keep the deer off, I put two 10' dog kennels around it.

No, no, no. You want deer TRAPS around your storm shelter, not deer fences. What if it's a long storm? What are you going to BBQ unless you trap a few deer? Sheesh.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Deer loses head-butt with Wisconsin lawn ornament.

 

[dlgoff]

You want deer TRAPS around your storm shelter,

not really when you have one of these :

 

[dlgoff]

Deer loses head-butt with Wisconsin lawn ornament.

They ain't too bright (said with a southern drawl)

 

[Tom.G]

They ain't too bright (said with a southern drawl)

And how bright would you expect Any male to be that has had to wait for a year?

 

[dlgoff]

Why do you have lights?

To see if a storms is coming at night.

What is the source of the power?

A direct bury cable from my homes power service

Will your wooden light pole survive?

hopefully it will.

Does the door open inwards or outwards?

outwards.

How will you get out once the dog kennel or caravan has fallen across the entrance?

I could always climb over the kennel.

 

[dlgoff]

And how bright would you expect Any male to be that has had to wait for a year?

I bet you already know the answer to that.

 

[dlgoff]

Thanks mentors for moving to this forum. Much better place.

 

[Baluncore]

If the door opens outwards, how will you open the door with an applied external debris load ?
Do you not have an alternative escape route?

 

[berkeman]

(His hatch has exploding bolts -- not to worry)...

 

[Vanadium 50]

Everything is better with exploding bolts.

 

[hutchphd]

Gus Grissom, were he still available for comment, would likely disagree...

 

[dlgoff]

If the door opens outwards, how will you open the door with an applied external debris load ?
Do you not have an alternative escape route?

I could always climb over the kennel.

 

[some bloke]

I could always climb over the kennel.

I think the context of the question was, if you were inside the bunker and something heavy (the pole, or caravan for example) fell across the door, how would you get out? if the door opens outwards then it will not be possible to open it from the inside, and you'd be trapped.

 

[dlgoff]

I think the context of the question was, if you were inside the bunker and something heavy (the pole, or caravan for example) fell across the door, how would you get out? if the door opens outwards then it will not be possible to open it from the inside, and you'd be trapped.

Ah! I understand now. Well I guess I would probably have to wait for a rescue. I do have a way to cook in there. Not to worry. I have a CO detector and the airflow into out is very high (I'm in the process of finding an airflow meter and will report the results here.) I'll be posting pics of the inside also.

Thanks for the clarification @some bloke

 

[berkeman]

Maybe add an escape tunnel and hatch outside of the enclosure? It doesn't have to be very big -- just big enough to crawl through to get out to fix whatever is the problem with the main door. "Always have two ways out"...

 

[berkeman]

Alternately, you could add a sub-door in your main door that opens inward. that might allow you to lift up anything that was holding down the door on the outside (probably a lot less work than digging that 2nd tunnel...).

 

[Baluncore]

When the dog kennel comes down on the door, which is highly probable with a storm from any direction, the mesh will be weighed down with debris. You need to make the door so it can be taken apart from inside the shelter with available tools kept there for the job. Then you need wire cutters to cut a hole in the mesh.

It all seems so irrational, building a trap for people, to keep the deer out.
Hoist on your own petard, while digging your own grave.

 

[Averagesupernova]

I would consider the things mentioned above, but in all likelihood people will be looking for neighbors/survivors. With the ventilation opening(s) several of these: https://www.northerntool.com/shop/t...ment > Personal Defense&utm_source=Google_LIA
-
would be very effective.

 

[berkeman]

I would consider the things mentioned above, but in all likelihood people will be looking for neighbors/survivors. With the ventilation opening(s) several of these: https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200798236_200798236?cm_mmc=Google-LIA&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4qK7iviU7QIVxp6zCh2aYwCpEAUYASABEgJTIfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&utm_campaign=Wolo&utm_content=16463&utm_medium=Security Equipment > Personal Defense&utm_source=Google_LIA
-
would be very effective.

Good point, ASN.

@dlgoff -- do you have a HAM radio in your shelter and a feed to an external antenna? That seems like it would be a good addition. Or at least an AM/FM/Weather radio with an external antenna.

 

[jrmichler]

Another suggestion is to have one of these jacks in the shelter:

Along with some 4X4's and a saw to cut them to length. The jack is available from Northern Tool and many hardware stores. I have one of these jacks. It is solid and well built. If I had an underground storm shelter, I would assume that I would have to deal with a tree, vehicle, or portion of a house on top of it after the storm.

I hope the OP took into account worst case flood levels...

 

[Averagesupernova]

I would keep materials in the shelter to push a small vertical antenna up through a vent to be able to communicate on 2 meters.

 

[dlgoff]

-- do you have a HAM radio in your shelter and a feed to an external antenna? That seems like it would be a good addition. Or at least an AM/FM/Weather radio with an external antenna.

Not a HAM radio but a CB with an external antenna. I also have a weather radio (with an external antenna) and an FM radio (no external antenna needed; works fine with its' inside antenna.

 

[dlgoff]

I hope the OP took into account worst case flood levels...

I'm about 800 feet above the Kansas River. So this isn't a concern. There's never been a drop of rain getting in during downpours.

 

[dlgoff]

It all seems so irrational, building a trap for people, ...

Ever been in a tornado? I have.

 

[anorlunda]

People in tornado prone areas have been digging storm shelters since first settlements. Although it sound like @dlgoff made his thoroughly modern, the basic issues of shelter, comfort, flooding, and egress are likely the same today as a century ago.

I would guess that to shelter from a tornado, the average time inside the shelter would be only 10 minutes. And if the storm is flinging caravans around like fallen leaves, it would be immensely safer in the shelter than outside.

The most rudimentary form of tornado shelter is just an open pit, or a ditch.

 

[bob012345]

How about a photo of the inside? Thanks.

 

[dlgoff]

Alternately, you could add a sub-door in your main door that opens inward.

Actually, This thing cost quite a bit of money and since the door weighs over 100 lbs, I wouldn't want to mess up it's action by messing with it. It has gas springs; reducing force to open.

 

[dlgoff]

How about a photo of the inside? Thanks.

I'm planing on taking inside pics tomorrow it it stops raining (tired of cleaning up tracked in mud from the construction site.)

 

[anorlunda]

Actually, This thing cost quite a bit of money and since the door weighs over 100 lbs, I wouldn't want to mess up it's action by messing with it. It has gas springs; reducing force to open.

I think the explosive bolts idea would be far sexier. You could stage a demo test, invite the whole town, and become the Mr. Wizard hero to all the kids in town.

Seriously, unless the inside walls are concrete, an army surplus folding shovel could be your backup emergency escape. You have a mound. Just dig sideways.

What about your inventory? A non-toxic fire extinguisher would be high on my list because you have a confined space with only one exit.

 

[berkeman]

I think the explosive bolts idea would be far sexier.

Seriously, unless the inside walls are concrete, an army surplus folding shovel could be your backup emergency escape. You have a mound. Just dig sideways.

I was just about to suggest a shovel as a backup. Great minds think alike.

 

[dlgoff]

Seriously, unless the inside walls are concrete, an army surplus folding shovel could be your backup emergency escape. You have a mound. Just dig sideways.

Yep. All concrete with lots of steel rebar.

What about your inventory? A non-toxic fire extinguisher would be high on my list because you have a confined space with only one exit

Yes. Mounted on stairs for quick access on exiting. Inside pics to come.

 

[bob012345]

How about a bullhorn in the shelter so they can hear you call for help a mile away...

 

[berkeman]

How about a bullhorn in the shelter so they can hear you call for help a mile away...

https://i.pinimg.com/600x315/10/aa/90/10aa90c7fab8fafd82abfeefdde4ceec.jpg

 

[bob012345]

For those of us that are lazy and don't want to build a shelter, here's one that fits under a bed.

https://allsharktankproducts.com/shark-tank-products-home/storm-shelter-bed-by-life-lift-systems/

 

[dlgoff]

For those of us that are lazy and don't want to build a shelter, here's one that fits under a bed.

https://allsharktankproducts.com/shark-tank-products-home/storm-shelter-bed-by-life-lift-systems/

I didn't build the actual concrete shelter but purchased it from:
US Storm Shelters

 

[anorlunda]

What kind of fire extinguisher? I ask because a confined space full of people from which they can not immediately escape is especially hazardous in case of fire. I had a similar dilemma living on a small boat at sea.

The most popular and inexpensive kind of fire extinguisher is the dry chemical type. That fine powder (I think silica) in high concentrations, is very bad for people to inhale. Halon, and CO2 extinguishers are also bad in a confined environment because they displace oxygen.

Wet foam extinguishers are the solution. The foam is not toxic, will not be inhaled, does not displace oxygen, not corrosive, and easy to clean up. Some of them are rated ABC.

 

[bob012345]

What kind of fire extinguisher? I ask because a confined space full of people from which they can not immediately escape is especially hazardous in case of fire. I had a similar dilemma living on a small boat at sea.

The most popular and inexpensive kind of fire extinguisher is the dry chemical type. That fine powder (I think silica) in high concentrations, is very bad for people to inhale. Halon, and CO2 extinguishers are also bad in a confined environment because they displace oxygen.

Wet foam extinguishers are the solution. The foam is not toxic, will not be inhaled, does not displace oxygen, not corrosive, and easy to clean up. Some of them are rated ABC.

Sure, have a good fire extinguisher but what are the odds of a serious fire in an all concrete buried storm shelter while waiting the few tens of minutes for a tornado to pass? I'd be more worried about sitting in concentrated Radon gas that accumulated over the year.

 

[Averagesupernova]

If there is the ability to cook in there, it is implied there is fuel. So the odds are higher than one would first think.

 

[mfb]

I'd be more worried about sitting in concentrated Radon gas that accumulated over the year.

Also not an issue for tens of minutes. Radon-222 has a half life of 4 days, so it doesn't accumulate that much. It leads to Lead-210 which stays radioactive (half life 22 years), but that activity accumulates very slowly and it can be removed by removing the dust in the shelter.

 

[256bits]

You should have built one of these "storm shelters", charge admission and make it pay for itself.
https://www.google.com/search?q=hobbit+house&rlz=1C1KMZB_enCA593CA862&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=UEkR3Im_OY7wpM%2Cmr4udqNNhnSQ8M%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRIzyP8yCelqxaMHeJoGs5h8_WMNA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjd_oiBjaLtAhXmqlkKHeZPAQMQ9QF6BAgFEGI#imgrc=UEkR3Im_OY7wpM

 

[Tom.G]

The most popular and inexpensive kind of fire extinguisher is the dry chemical type. That fine powder (I think silica) in high concentrations...

The 5-BC rated extinguisher we keep in the kitchen lists the contents as:

Sodium bicarbonate (that's baking soda)
Calcium carbonate (chalk; also used as an antacid for upset tummy)
Mica (sometimes used to add sparkle to nail polish or car paint)
nuisance dust
irritant

Hmm... "irritant." I guess they don't want you hanging around after use.

There is also a statement:

Avoid exposure to contents if wearing contact lenses; or have respiratory illnesses or skin allergies.

Although the agent contained in this extinguisher is not toxic, it may cause skin irritation. In case of contact with agent, flush from affected area with cool, clean water.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[dlgoff]

Wet foam extinguishers are the solution.

Thanks I'll replace the inexpensive dry chemical one that in there now.

 

[anorlunda]

I don't want to alarm people about ordinary household fire extinguishers. It is the small confined space that is a special use case.

The hazard is greatly increased with people in a small confined space. In the first 5 seconds after release, the entire chamber will be filled with a dense cloud of powder. So the quantity inhaled will be high. As soon as the dust settles (literally), the hazard is reduced.

In most home settings, the room volumes are higher and people can leave the room, so the quantity inhaled would be less.

https://servicefireequip.com/en/blog/38-how-dangerous-is-fire-extinguisher-powder
Fire Extinguisher Powder Inhalation
Fire extinguisher powder inhalation is one of the biggest dangers with fire extinguishers. It is very irritating to mucous membranes and may cause difficulties with breathing if inhaled in large enough quantities. [emphasis mine] Usually, in a small fire situation where you would be using one of the commonly seen extinguishers, there would not be enough dust to be breathed in. However, if it does happen, you should go to the hospital. The dust may coat your lungs on the inside, which can prevent oxygen from reaching the rest of the body.

 

[dlgoff]

Wet foam extinguishers are the solution.

Thanks for this. I'll replace the one that's in there now.

I don't want to alarm people about ordinary household fire extinguishers

Better safe than sorry.

I took a mandatory training class given by the City's fire department when I worked at a pharmaceutical lab. They taught us the "proper" way to use dry chemical fire extinguishers. Funny, I learned just how messy they were but they did work well on our training kerosene fires. In the labs we had halon (Bromochlorodifluoromethane) extinguishers. In my storm shelter I have a two burner camping stove fueled by a 16 oz screw-on propane tank like this.

So I'm not too worried.

 

[dlgoff]

I think the explosive bolts idea would be far sexier.

You got me curious; sounds like a good solution. Looks like you can get them to work any way you want. I learned something new today from this site.

 

[Averagesupernova]

The most dangerous thing I see that is actually in the shelter are the propane bottles. My opinion.