Newton's law of viscosity in 3D, used to derive Navier-Stoke

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the derivation of the Navier-Stokes equations, particularly the relationship between strain rates and shear stresses in three dimensions, often referred to as the 'Stokes relations'. Participants express confusion regarding the complexity of these relations compared to the one-dimensional case and seek clarification on the meaning of normal components in the viscous shear stress tensor.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in understanding how strain rates relate to shear stresses in three dimensions, noting that the derivation is not clearly presented in available texts.
  • Another participant suggests that the normal components in the viscous shear stress tensor are not shear stresses in a coordinate system aligned with the surface but rather normal stresses due to tensile and compressive deformations.
  • A participant mentions the analogy to the 3D version of Hooke's law for solids, indicating that normal stresses arise from applied tension in a viscous fluid.
  • Continuum mechanics is referenced, with a participant stating that Newtonian fluids have viscous stresses proportional to the rate of strain, implying that familiarity with tensors is necessary for understanding the derivation.
  • A later reply acknowledges that a referenced book provides some answers, although the content may be challenging to grasp.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the clarity of the derivation or the interpretation of the viscous shear stress tensor, indicating ongoing confusion and differing levels of understanding.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express limitations in their understanding of continuum mechanics and tensors, which may affect their ability to follow the discussion. The complexity of the derivation and the definitions of terms used are also noted as potential barriers.

cantgetaname
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I'm trying to understand how the Navier-Stokes equations are derived and having trouble understanding how the strain rates are related to shear stresses in three dimensions, what a lot of texts refer to as the 'Stokes relations'.

http://soliton.ae.gatech.edu/labs/windtunl/classes/hispd/hispd06/ns_eqns.html

Image466.gif


It's no longer the simple stress=viscosity*velocity gradient of the 1d case, but more complicated than that and none of the books I could get my hands on or the internet could show me how these relations are derived. They are just mentioned there as if they are obvious but I can't see how.

And what does the normal components in viscous shear stress tensor (τxx, τyy, τzz) even mean? How can you have viscous shear stress normal to a surface.
 
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cantgetaname said:
I'm trying to understand how the Navier-Stokes equations are derived and having trouble understanding how the strain rates are related to shear stresses in three dimensions, what a lot of texts refer to as the 'Stokes relations'.

http://soliton.ae.gatech.edu/labs/windtunl/classes/hispd/hispd06/ns_eqns.html

Image466.gif


It's no longer the simple stress=viscosity*velocity gradient of the 1d case, but more complicated than that and none of the books I could get my hands on or the internet could show me how these relations are derived. They are just mentioned there as if they are obvious but I can't see how.

And what does the normal components in viscous shear stress tensor (τxx, τyy, τzz) even mean? How can you have viscous shear stress normal to a surface.
An outline of the derivation you are looking for is presented in Section 1.2 of Bird, R.B., Stewart, W.E., and Lightfoot, E.N., Transport Phenomena.

In terms of your question regarding viscous "shear" stresses normal to a surface, the answer is that these are not shear stresses (at least not in the a coordinate system aligned with the surface). These are normal stresses resulting from the tensile and compressive deformations that are occurring along the coordinate directions. Are you familiar with the 3D version of Hooke's law for solids? There you have tensile normal strains, and you have corresponding tensile normal stresses. This is the analogous thing for a fluid. For example, if you have a rod of a very viscous fluid and you apply tension to the rod, it will experience a rate of deformation in the axial direction. The force you are applying divided by the cross section area of the rod is the normal stress. For an incompressible viscous fluid, the stress is 3 times the viscosity times the rate of extension.

Chet
 
Are you familiar with continuum mechanics? A Newtonian fluid is actually one where the viscous stresses are directly proportional to the rate of strain. If you are familiar with continuum mechanics and tensors, the above equations are easily derived.
 
Chestermiller said:
An outline of the derivation you are looking for is presented in Section 1.2 of Bird, R.B., Stewart, W.E., and Lightfoot, E.N., Transport Phenomena.

In terms of your question regarding viscous "shear" stresses normal to a surface, the answer is that these are not shear stresses (at least not in the a coordinate system aligned with the surface). These are normal stresses resulting from the tensile and compressive deformations that are occurring along the coordinate directions. Are you familiar with the 3D version of Hooke's law for solids? There you have tensile normal strains, and you have corresponding tensile normal stresses. This is the analogous thing for a fluid. For example, if you have a rod of a very viscous fluid and you apply tension to the rod, it will experience a rate of deformation in the axial direction. The force you are applying divided by the cross section area of the rod is the normal stress. For an incompressible viscous fluid, the stress is 3 times the viscosity times the rate of extension.

Chet
That book does answer my question (although at present a lot of it goes over my head). Thanks!
 

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