Question about the Derivation of the Equations of Vibration

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Amadeo
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Derivation Vibration
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation and understanding of the equations governing undamped free vibrations, specifically the transformation of the general solution from the form u = Acosωt + Bsinωt to the polar form Rcos(ωt - Φ). Participants explore the relationships between the constants A, B, R, and Φ, as well as the implications of initial conditions on these parameters.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the differential equation for undamped free vibrations and the general solution, questioning the transformation to the polar form.
  • Another participant suggests that A and B can be any constants, which can be chosen to represent initial displacement and velocity, leading to the reformulation in terms of R and Φ.
  • A third participant seeks clarification on the physical setup of the vibrating system, asking for details about the mass and spring configuration.
  • One participant reiterates the flexibility in choosing A and B, emphasizing that they can be viewed as points in a plane, which can also be expressed in polar coordinates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the flexibility of the constants A and B and their relationship to initial conditions. However, there is no consensus on the necessity of B being RsinΦ, and the discussion remains exploratory regarding the physical interpretation of the system.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of the constants and their physical meanings, particularly in relation to the initial conditions and the specific setup of the vibrating system.

Amadeo
Messages
28
Reaction score
9
TL;DR
Derivation of Equation of Vibration
For undamped free vibrations, we have the following differential equation.

mu'' + ku = 0

where m is the mass of the object hanging on the end of a spring, and u is the distance from the equilibrium position as a function of time.

This yields u = Acosωt + Bsinωt

where ω is √(k/m) (k=spring constant).

I am having trouble understanding why this can be rewritten as

u = RcosΦcosωt + RsinΦsinωt (which, in turn, = Rcos(ωt -Φ) )

If A represents the initial displacement from equilibrium (ui), I can see how we could set this equal to RcosΦ, (R being the maximum displacement) thereby defining Φ to be that value which makes ui=RcosΦ true. But, I don't see why B must, in that case, necessarily be RsinΦ.

It looks like B must be the initial velocity (vi) multiplied by m/k.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
This just occurred to me:

Since the solution u = Acosωt + Bsinωt is general, A and B can be any two constants. If we choose two arbitrary constants for A and B, this will determine the initial displacement and the initial velocity.

Alternatively, if we choose two arbitrary values for the initial displacement and velocity, these will determine A and B.

In this case, we are choosing values for A and B. These values then determine the initial velocity and displacement. We could choose any values we wish, but we chose these values (A= RcosΦ and B=RsinΦ) because they enable the convenient reformulation Rcos(ωt -Φ).

Any more insights would be appreciated.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Dale and PeroK
You mentioned a mass hanging from a spring and its displacement (m,k,u). The solution is Acosωt + Bsinωt where both A and B have displacement units. I understand those. The R and Φ look like polar coordinates, range and angle. Does your spring hang from a pivot? Describe exactly what is vibrating.
 
Last edited:
Amadeo said:
This just occurred to me:

Since the solution u = Acosωt + Bsinωt is general, A and B can be any two constants. If we choose two arbitrary constants for A and B, this will determine the initial displacement and the initial velocity.

Alternatively, if we choose two arbitrary values for the initial displacement and velocity, these will determine A and B.

In this case, we are choosing values for A and B. These values then determine the initial velocity and displacement. We could choose any values we wish, but we chose these values (A= RcosΦ and B=RsinΦ) because they enable the convenient reformulation Rcos(ωt -Φ).

Any more insights would be appreciated.

Another way to look at it: the set ##(A, B)## is just the set of any two numbers. You could think of this as points in a plane expressed in Cartesian coordinates. Equally, you could express this in polar coordinates ##(R\cos \phi, R \sin \phi)##, where ##R^2 = A^2 + B^2## etc.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: nasu and vanhees71

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
6K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
9K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
6K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
5K