Relating Newton's Force to Black Holes (Calculation?)

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves calculating the distance from the center of a black hole at which a student would be torn apart due to gravitational forces. The context is rooted in concepts from general relativity and the physics of black holes, specifically relating to the Schwarzschild radius and the forces acting on a human body.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the calculation of the Schwarzschild radius and its implications for understanding the event horizon of a black hole. There is an exploration of how to relate the force required to tear muscle tissue to the gravitational forces near a black hole. Questions arise regarding the compatibility of units in the calculations and the relevance of the mass of the Sun in this context.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, questioning assumptions about the units used in calculations and the necessity of certain constants. Some guidance has been offered regarding unit compatibility, but there is no explicit consensus on the approach to take or the final outcome of the calculations.

Contextual Notes

There is an emphasis on the need for clarity regarding the units of measurement, particularly concerning the mass of the black hole and the gravitational constant. The discussion reflects a learning environment where participants are encouraged to clarify their understanding of the physics involved.

alphaj
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Homework Statement


Muscle can be torn apart by a force of 100,000 N applied across an area of 1 m2. A 10 cm2 muscle therefore will be torn by a force of 100 N.

If a student of average size were being lowered into a black hole of 1 solar mass, at about what distance from the hole's center will he be torn apart?

2. (What I thought was a) Relevant equation

RSchwarzschild= (2MG)/c2

Where M is the mass of the black hole; G is the gravity constant; c is the speed of light.
(seen here: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/blkhol.html#c2)

The Attempt at a Solution



I did some background research on black holes and I thought that if I calculated the Schwarzschild radius, I would be able to identify the event horizon (defined as the last distance at which light can escape the pull of a black hole) of the black hole, and thus, that would tell me the distance from which the student would be torn apart.

RSchwarzschild= (2MG)/c2
= [2(1 solar mass)(6.67 x 10-11 Nm2/kg2]/(2.998 x 108 m/s)2

R = 1.48x10-27 m

I think this would be the correct answer, but it doesn't use any of the numerical givens other than the mass of the black hole.

When I consider the givens regarding surface area and force; I can tell that I am supposed to use an estimate of an 'average student's size' to attain my answer. If I estimate that the average person is about 1.75 m2 (estimate using numbers from BSA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_surface_area), then I believe I can say that 100000 N is to 1 m2, as x N is to 1.75 m2 and cross multiply to find that it would take x=175000 N of force to tear apart the student's muscles. But, I am unsure of how to relate this force to black holes and distance.
Any help or hints would be appreciated! Thank you.
 
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alphaj said:

Homework Statement


Muscle can be torn apart by a force of 100,000 N applied across an area of 1 m2. A 10 cm2 muscle therefore will be torn by a force of 100 N.

If a student of average size were being lowered into a black hole of 1 solar mass, at about what distance from the hole's center will he be torn apart?

2. (What I thought was a) Relevant equation

RSchwarzschild= (2MG)/c2

Where M is the mass of the black hole; G is the gravity constant; c is the speed of light.
(seen here: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/blkhol.html#c2)

The Attempt at a Solution



I did some background research on black holes and I thought that if I calculated the Schwarzschild radius, I would be able to identify the event horizon (defined as the last distance at which light can escape the pull of a black hole) of the black hole, and thus, that would tell me the distance from which the student would be torn apart.

RSchwarzschild= (2MG)/c2
= [2(1 solar mass)(6.67 x 10-11 Nm2/kg2]/(2.998 x 108 m/s)2

I don't see units of "solar mass" in the rest of this equation. How can the result for the Schwarzschild radius be in meters?

R = 1.48x10-27 m

Always check the units of your calculations. The resulting units should be the same on both sides of the equation.

I think this would be the correct answer, but it doesn't use any of the numerical givens other than the mass of the black hole.

When I consider the givens regarding surface area and force; I can tell that I am supposed to use an estimate of an 'average student's size' to attain my answer. If I estimate that the average person is about 1.75 m2 (estimate using numbers from BSA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_surface_area), then I believe I can say that 100000 N is to 1 m2, as x N is to 1.75 m2 and cross multiply to find that it would take x=175000 N of force to tear apart the student's muscles. But, I am unsure of how to relate this force to black holes and distance.

Any help or hints would be appreciated! Thank you.

You looked up some other numbers related to this problem on the internet. Why didn't you do the same for the mass of the sun?
 
Thank you for the input!
I'm not sure why I would need the mass of the Sun to evaluate this problem?
 
alphaj said:
Thank you for the input!
I'm not sure why I would need the mass of the Sun to evaluate this problem?
I thought I explained it very clearly. Units of "solar mass" in the formula for the Schwarzschild radius are not compatible with the units for the constant G.

Your calculation does not result in units of meters for the Schwarzschild radius.

10-27 m is to the size of a hydrogen atom as a hydrogen atom is to the size of a beach ball.
 
I see, thank you for clarifying. Sorry to make you repeat yourself! I'm going on my third week ever in a Physics class, so thanks again, your input is invaluable.
 

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