Simultaneity for entangled particles

[Demystifier]

Nonlocality and relativity may peacefully coexist:
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/1002.3226
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/1006.1986

 

[Phrak]

Nonlocality and relativity may peacefully coexist:
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/1002.3226
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/1006.1986

What's the jist of the argument?

 

[Demystifier]

What's the jist of the argument?

That velocities faster than light are not in contradiction with the principle of relativity.

 

[John232]

You are trying to make sense of quantum theory by assigning a physical process to "information acquired upon reduction of uncertainty". I use the terms 'information' and 'uncertainly' not in the quantum mechanical sense but in the sense of information theory. In other words, upon observation, more knowledge is obtained about a physical state than was available before an observation was made. This should be seen as a purely subjective phenomena until demonstrated otherwise.

There are many theoretical attempts to caste this objectively. The experimental physicists seem to do a better job at making peace with the absurd.

I am sure they do make better sense out of it mathmatically. But, the lorentz is a factor in the mathmatical equations of light speed traveling particles. I asked how is there not a way information couldn't be simulateos for an object traveling the speed of light because I think that would be one bug in the explanation. Somehow a particle traveling the speed of light that would have contracted worldlines would end up being able to be detected at different points at the same time.
At the start of particle physics it was said that there is no way to know for sure about the frame of reference of a particle itself so then it was wrong to assume that it did expereince spacetime dialation, but what if it did in some fanshion, but how would we ever know for sure what a particle itself perceived?
So then the question would be what would separate a particles perspective from our own that would allow it to be observed with an approx speed and location when its worldline should be contracted to zero?

 

[michelcolman]

If you assume a particle traveling close to the speed of light underwent spacetime dilation then that particle would have its worldline contract to zero and its time would be undefined, so then how could it not interact simultaneosly with other particles that shared its history?

It could be simultaneous for one observer, but then it would not be simultaneous for a different observer.

Of course, from the point of view of a particle traveling at light speed, everything is simultaneous. Those reference systems always give nonsensical results. I'm talking about real observers, who can never travel at light speed. If one of those observers finds the entanglement effect to act instantaneously, it will take a finite amount of time for a different observer, and it will actually work backwards in time for yet another one. That's just a basic result of relativity.

So, as far as I can tell, the only ways of getting around this are:
- the effect happens simultaneously in some reference frame, for example the frame of the source emitting the entangled particles
- the effect happens in such a way that it does not matter when it happened, since nobody can tell the difference. However, how can researchers claim to have created entangled particles over some distance or time, then, if they can't tell when decoherence occurred?

 

[John232]

The forward motion does seem different than the affect it would have on the spin, but if you send an electron traveling close to the speed of light down a tube that will reflect the wave at a half wavelength it will not travel down that tube. Any voltage at the start of that path will not have voltage. It is as if the particle knows that it is a half wave length before it even travels down it. So then it could have some precognition, but still be seen to travel at a defenet speed.

There is something that separates the two reference frames so that we can observe the particle to react from its own frame of reference while at the same time we are unable to see the effects it does directly at the same. Traveling the speed of light for a particle doesn't create an effect where it is seen to travel at infinite speed even though its worldline is being crunched to zero in its own frame, but we still observe the effects it has on the particle itself. It's as if spacetime only contracts for it, but the effects caused by it affects what we see it do.