So do you risk talking to her about fat?

[jackmell]

I mean when she's what 6,7, 8, or 9 or even earlier. Or do you just say nothing about it and just let whatever happen, happen or even worst, handle it improperly throughout her adolescent life?

It's quite a bit more than just talking about it once of course. Gotta' guide her along a healthy path without upsetting her, like for example having very little junk food in the house, and not making a big deal about it. Delicate operation for sure and things could go horribly wrong. Still though, I'd risk explaining to her just what's involved with . . . being fat.

Would you?

 

[alt]

I mean when she's what 6,7, 8, or 9 or even earlier. Or do you just say nothing about it and just let whatever happen, happen or even worst, handle it improperly throughout her adolescent life?

It's quite a bit more than just talking about it once of course. Gotta' guide her along a healthy path without upsetting her, like for example having very little junk food in the house, and not making a big deal about it. Delicate operation for sure and things could go horribly wrong. Still though, I'd risk explaining to her just what's involved with . . . being fat.

Would you?

What's delicate ? Why not upset her ?

Two ways to ensure your kids don't get fat;

1) Have good fresh food in the house - minimal junk food
2) Get them involved in a very physical sport from those early ages you mentioned

It worked for my four.

But to answer your question. My 20 year old daughter left her sport a few years ago, when she finished school. She thus became much less active, though still very busy in her new job, studies, etc.

About a year ago she statred looking decidedly plumb.

"You're getting FAT, girl - get yourself out - go for a jog, join a gymn - do something or soon, there'll be two of you"

Hounded her several times in this way. About a month later, she was jogging, gymn, etc. Back to looking a stunner !

 

[lisab]

I appreciate the delicacy of the situation. From the sounds of alt's post, his household is more of a rough-and-tumble style. Not every family is like that.

What age of kid are we talking about? It's quite normal for girls to plump up in the year before they go through adolescence.

Also, at the risk of being insensitive - what's your own physical condition, and that of other family members (especially mom)? It's going to be hard to harp on a kid about a few extra pounds if you have some to shed, as well.

 

[alt]

I mean when she's what 6,7, 8, or 9 or even earlier. Or do you just say nothing about it and just let whatever happen, happen or even worst, handle it improperly throughout her adolescent life?

It's quite a bit more than just talking about it once of course. Gotta' guide her along a healthy path without upsetting her, like for example having very little junk food in the house, and not making a big deal about it. Delicate operation for sure and things could go horribly wrong. Still though, I'd risk explaining to her just what's involved with . . . being fat.

Would you?

I appreciate the delicacy of the situation. From the sounds of alt's post, his household is more of a rough-and-tumble style. Not every family is like that.

What age of kid are we talking about? It's quite normal for girls to plump up in the year before they go through adolescence.

Also, at the risk of being insensitive - what's your own physical condition, and that of other family members (especially mom)? It's going to be hard to harp on a kid about a few extra pounds if you have some to shed, as well.

No, not at all - my family is very well ordered and functional - no rough and tumble, other than in fun. I simply but firmly believe you will do more damage to a childs mentality in hiding a problem for fear of damaging them, than confronting it. Small pain up front verses years of mumbo jumbo !

Agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence.

Here's another major tip about kids;

Rather than do as you say, they will do as they see you do !

 

[jackmell]

What age of kid are we talking about? It's quite normal for girls to plump up in the year before they go through adolescence.

I'm referring to very young girls of course, when you can really have an impact on her, like before 13 or so. The danger of course is if you handle it poorly and she develops an eating disorder.

But it's important for mom and dad to have healthy habits too. However, I think even that, some girls will become overweight no matter what you do. Have to be willing to accept that if it happens and not put pressure on her to "get skinny" and only make it worst because often they can't loose the weight (permanently) unless they take drastic measures.

It's a serious issue for girls, the fat thing. I believe mom and dad should really try and address it starting at a very young age but delicately.

 

[lisab]

No, not at all - my family is very well ordered and functional - no rough and tumble, other than in fun. I simply but firmly believe you will do more damage to a childs mentality in hiding a problem for fear of damaging them, than confronting it. Small pain up front verses years of mumbo jumbo !

Agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence.

Here's another major tip about kids;

Rather than do as you say, they will do as they see you do !

'Rough and tumble' is a poor choice of words on my part, I don't mean physically abusive. More like how you describe - honesty and openness...and not a lot of tact, maybe . Lots of families have that sort of culture, I don't think it's bad at all.

A well-adjusted 20-year-old may be OK with being warned about getting fat; such a direct warning would probably not work as well with a girl as young as 6, though.

 

[alt]

'Rough and tumble' is a poor choice of words on my part, I don't mean physically abusive. More like how you describe - honesty and openness...and not a lot of tact, maybe . Lots of families have that sort of culture, I don't think it's bad at all.

A well-adjusted 20-year-old may be OK with being warned about getting fat; such a direct warning would probably not work as well with a girl as young as 6, though.

Cool - I didn't for a moment think you meant physically abusive :-)

Agree with your last.

 

[turbo]

I have a neighbor who is quite overweight, and she has two daughters 5 and 7. Their grandfather built them a huge playground with timber-framed swing-set, slide, monkey bars, and balance equipment. They are very active little girls and they are not even a little bit overweight. They are also aware of the complications that obesity can entail, since their great-grandmother and great-grandfather are diabetic. They are too young for lectures, IMO, but they are not too young to exercise by having fun, or to learn good eating habits. When my wife and I have them down here and it's snack-time, snacks are often cherry tomatoes, carrot sticks, cucumber spears, with low-fat dressings to dip them in. They love it. Their grandfather has peach, plum, and apple trees on the property so at this time of the year, the kids can have fresh fruit anytime without raiding the 'fridge.

 

[DaveC426913]

"You're getting FAT, girl - get yourself out - go for a jog, join a gymn - do something or soon, there'll be two of you"

Hounded her several times in this way. About a month later, she was jogging, gymn, etc. Back to looking a stunner !

I would say this is by far the exception rather than the rule. 99% of the time this will backfire.

1] Parents especially should never criticize a child's weight. There is no end to the lineup of adults whose issues can be traced back to parents who criticized their appearance, even lovingly.

2] If you really feel you must intervene, then lead by example, or at least directly facilitate. Sign up at a gym yourself doing something fun. Get them interested in the social or play aspect of it. Get them into a sport. If not yourself, then try to facilitate them having friends to go with. Drive them, get them equipment, pay for everything. Make it an enjoyable experience.

 

[leroyjenkens]

I won't even introduce my kids to junk food. If they don't know about junk food, they can't be disappointed with cantaloupe. The sweetest thing they'll be eating will be a banana, and even then they won't be able to finish it, because it's too sweet compared to the usual celery they're going to be eating. For breakfast, there will be no Lucky Charms, there will be plain oatmeal and maybe some raisins in it, if they've behaved. They won't even know donuts and ice cream exist, so they'll be happy.

 

[lisab]

I won't even introduce my kids to junk food. If they don't know about junk food, they can't be disappointed with cantaloupe. The sweetest thing they'll be eating will be a banana, and even then they won't be able to finish it, because it's too sweet compared to the usual celery they're going to be eating. For breakfast, there will be no Lucky Charms, there will be plain oatmeal and maybe some raisens in it, if they've behaved. They won't even know donuts and ice cream exist.

That's exactly how I raised my daughter, and it worked...until kindergarten. The day before she started school, she couldn't get through a cupcake because it was too sweet; by first grade she was no different from the other kids. Because every birthday or holiday, there would be "treats" brought in for the kids. The very fact that crap food was called "treats" says a *lot*!

But we still didn't eat a lot of sweets at home, and that's far more influential, imo.

 

[Evo]

I wouldn't talk about body image and tell someone that young that putting on weight will make them fat = ugly and unwanted.

Is this your own child you're talking to? Some other children? That makes a difference. If it's your own child, that's simple, you cook healthy, and explain to them the requirements (calories, food choices, exercise) that makes a healthy body and the benefits of maintaining a healthy body. Make it about feeling good and being healthy, never about appearance and acceptance.

 

[DaveC426913]

I won't even introduce my kids to junk food.

My first thought was: "leroy has kids?"
My second thought was: "Not a chance. If he did, he'd be saying exactly what lisab said."

...it worked...until kindergarten.

I wouldn't talk about body image and tell someone that young that putting on weight will make them fat = ugly and unwanted.

Is this your own child you're talking to? Some other children? That makes a difference. If it's your own child, that's simple, you cook healthy, and explain to them the requirements (calories, food choices, exercise) that makes a healthy body and the benefits of maintaining a healthy body. Make it about feeling good and being healthy, never about appearance and acceptance.

jackmell, this is the best advice.

 

[Topher925]

Let me start out by saying that I used to be really fat. In elementary school all the way up to the high school I was always known as "that fat kid". It wasn't until I started being out of the house and became independent that I started to lose weight and get in shape.

When I was young my mother would always tell me I was fat and that I needed to lose weight and sometimes just flat out yell at me. She would try and force me into doing things like karate or fat camp or something like that. Then she would go grocery shopping and fill the kitchen with garbage like hot pockets and soda and do absolutely nothing in terms of exercise. Once I grew up and started being on my own I dropped the weight pretty fast and started living a healthy lifestyle. Now she complains that I'm too skinny and eat too healthy!

My point is set an example. Do you eat healthy? Do you exercise on a regular basis? What kind of foods do you keep in the house? Generally fat parents have fats kids, and its not because of genetics. If you want your kids to have a healthy lifestyle you should teach by example, not by lecture.

 

[DaveC426913]

And again.

...teach by example, not by lecture.

 

[Gokul43201]

My point is set an example. Do you eat healthy? Do you exercise on a regular basis? What kind of foods do you keep in the house? Generally fat parents have fats kids, and its not because of genetics. If you want your kids to have a healthy lifestyle you should teach by example, not by lecture.

And if you can't teach by example, teach by Colbert: http://www.colbertnation.com/the-co...2010/tip-wag---baby-gap--dick-cheney---plants

 

[jackmell]

I wouldn't talk about body image and tell someone that young that putting on weight will make them fat = ugly and unwanted.

Is this your own child you're talking to? Some other children? That makes a difference. If it's your own child, that's simple, you cook healthy, and explain to them the requirements (calories, food choices, exercise) that makes a healthy body and the benefits of maintaining a healthy body. Make it about feeling good and being healthy, never about appearance and acceptance.

But fat does equal ugly and unwanted in many parts of American society. However, the effect is often hidden and implicit but it's there nevertheless. I'm just being realistic. It's cruel but true.

Yes I would engage my daughter at six or so and start talking to her not only about the health part but also about the social problems it causes. However I didn't but she's always been skinny so didn't have the problem.

But what about the parents that do have children that are overweight? It's heartbreaking for them I believe to see their child suffering (because of how society treats them) especially the girls. For example, I'm sitting outside the bank and this fat girls walks out the door and just looks down as she passes me by. Well, I don't expect all women to look at me but I could tell from her face and expression that she thought, "I'm too fat for you to be interested in me". That seriously hurts a woman and they hide it well.

I am utterly convinced that those parents that watch the suffering their overweight daughters go through, would say, "yes Jack, if only I knew, I would have risked it and started to talk to her about a girls appearance early, even at four, and would have taught her (gently), and led by example so that she may not have become overweight because I know how much it hurts her."

 

[turbo]

I think placing an emphasis on body-image in the minds of young children can be destructive, leading to eating disorders and self-esteem problems. Better to give them a good balanced diet and encourage lots of physical activities than to implant negatives (If you get fat, people will think less of you.) in their minds. You don't even have to accentuate the "health" aspects if you get them into good habits early.

 

[Gokul43201]

But fat does equal ugly and unwanted in many parts of American society. However, the effect is often hidden and implicit but it's there nevertheless. I'm just being realistic. It's cruel but true.

Yes I would engage my daughter at six or so and start talking to her not only about the health part but also about the social problems it causes.

How far would you want your daughter to go to conform to the pressures of societal norms? And why?

For instance, would you encourage her to conform to the cruel reality that she will probably be branded a geek and might never have any "cool friends" if she aces all her subjects in middle/high school?

 

[Klockan3]

I don't get it why people are dandying girls so much while if this was about getting a boy to start exercising people would just tell you to tell him the truth. I think a huge reason why the disparages between the sexes are so large is because just about everyone is treating girls as if they were more delicate than boys, both emotionally and physically.

Look, they only develop things like eating disorders if they are not secure with who they are. If they aren't depending on others to like them they won't do that. But somehow many girls have gotten the idea that if they only look good enough they will be popular which isn't true at all. Even the best looking of girls aren't that popular if they are totally insecure and got nothing else that is interesting.

What you should teach the girl is that getting into shape is a really good investment for life. People treat you better if you are in shape, you will feel better and be happier if you are in shape and you live longer as an extra bonus. But it isn't the key to become popular, that is about their personality and attitude more than anything else.

For instance, would you encourage her to conform to the cruel reality that she will probably be branded a geek and might never have any "cool friends" if she aces all her subjects in middle/high school?

That isn't true, you can ace all of your subjects without being called a geek in most places, as I said it is more about your attitude and personality more than anything else. People who put a lot of weight on education are called geeks and that isn't strange at all and it doesn't matter if those people ace tests or not, but you can ace all tests without really thinking that it is important either and then you won't get called a geek.

 

[DaveC426913]

For example, I'm sitting outside the bank and this fat girls walks out the door and just looks down as she passes me by. Well, I don't expect all women to look at me but I could tell from her face and expression that she thought, "I'm too fat for you to be interested in me"

More likely what she was thinking was "He's looking at me just the way my father used to look at me when he criticized me."

 

[jackmell]

More likely what she was thinking was "He's looking at me just the way my father used to look at me when he criticized me."

I wasn't looking at her disparagingly and would have smiled at her had she looked.

How about at the clubs? Lots of pretty girls although there are sometimes a few well . . . kinda fat ones and you know they're suffering because they're with their girl friends that get them to go and you know they are self-conscious about their weight. And the only time they dance is when the girls all dance together on the floor. The guys don't show the fat ones attention and don't dance with them, and they just go home hurt.

Come one, no dad wants that to happen to his daughter. Then risk it.

I don't condone in any way pressuring a girl to be thin or harassing her. Parents need to be wise enough to try and help but not force or intimidate. There is a right way without traumatizing her or pushing her towards an eating disorder I am sure of it and I can't say I know how exactly but I think parents should make them aware of the problem before it's mostly too late.

It's just my personal opinion.

 

[mugaliens]

Go for family walks, three times a week, for about an hour at a time.

 

[jackmell]

How far would you want your daughter to go to conform to the pressures of societal norms? And why?

I would talk to her about the pressures of society including how society judges a woman to a significant degree, by how she looks, then empower her to make her own decisions, within reason, even at an early age because I think it's important to give her a sense of "control" over her life so that she can learn to become independent and confident as opposed to having a dominating parent that she's afraid of and causes her to be timid and fearful. I say let her get her way and support her making decisions for herself. Strong little girl. That's it! :)

 

[DaveC426913]

How about at the clubs? Lots of pretty girls although there are sometimes a few well . . . kinda fat ones and you know they're suffering because they're with their girl friends that get them to go and you know they are self-conscious about their weight. And the only time they dance is when the girls all dance together on the floor. The guys don't show the fat ones attention and don't dance with them, and they just go home hurt.

jackmell, you have issues about fat women. Your posts belie this. You are not writing about your daughter at all, you are writing about the women you see around you, and projecting your fears onto them.

It's fine to have issues when you have only yourself. But are now projecting your issues onto your child.

This is bad. But it is a classic parent folly.

For the sake of your daughter, recognize that this issue belongs to you, not to her.

 

[DanP]

The main problem with being fat is the quality of life you have. It's LOW. Starting with high health risks and ending with social pressure.

Second, being overweight is much more so a factor of how much you eat and what you eat then keeping a very active life with sports. This is not to say that humans shouldn't exercise, it is of utmost importance for health.

By all means, do educate her about choices in what to eat, health issues, child obesity, or even ask for specialized help in a pediatric clinic if required. Childhood obesity is extremely dangerous. Obese child run much higher risks of health than persons who became obese later in life, after adulthood.

And also, if she is 10 and fat, then you have a part of the fault IMO as a parent for keeping unhealthy foods in the house and not acting when she begins to consume them, by putting a stop to it, abruptly if required.

 

[DanP]

j
For the sake of your daughter, recognize that this issue belongs to you, not to her.

Yeah, but one fact remains. Being fat since childhood its a extreme health risk. This is irrespective to whose issues are at play.

 

[Chi Meson]

I mean when she's what 6,7, 8, or 9 or even earlier. Or do you just say nothing about it and just let whatever happen, happen or even worst, handle it improperly throughout her adolescent life?

It's quite a bit more than just talking about it once of course. Gotta' guide her along a healthy path without upsetting her, like for example having very little junk food in the house, and not making a big deal about it. Delicate operation for sure and things could go horribly wrong. Still though, I'd risk explaining to her just what's involved with . . . being fat.

Would you?

My daughter is 9. Since she has been able to see (literally), she has watched us run, bike, swim, etc. After our third kid, we might have the most-used Baby Jogger ever built. We have never had a box of sugary cereal in the house, even though they have sampled Fruit Loops etc. here and there. They've had birthday cake, of course, but only at birthday parties. The closest things to junk food in the house are Saltines and plain corn chips. We have fruit out the wazoo all the time.

On her own, my daughter has noticed how fat some of the other kids on her swimming team are, and how that can't be helpful to them.

 

[jackmell]

jackmell, you have issues about fat women. Your posts belie this. You are not writing about your daughter at all, you are writing about the women you see around you, and projecting your fears onto them.

It's fine to have issues when you have only yourself. But are now projecting your issues onto your child.

This is bad. But it is a classic parent folly.

For the sake of your daughter, recognize that this issue belongs to you, not to her.

I don't fear fat women at all. I just recognize their suffering. Really guys, this thread was not meant to be about the "health" issues associated with being overweight although it is also a real problem. Rather I wanted to emphasize the social and emotional impact of being overweight in American culture and tried to suggest a way for parents to "catch" it before it starts. Two more examples: I have two fat friends, females. One has been dating a guy for five years. I ask her, "why ain't he marryin' you?" She said he tells her, "well I love you but you're too fat". "Then why don'w you break up with him," I tell her. She acknowldeges what I already know, "what else can I find?" The other friend I have is already married with two children. She's grown quite overweight during the marriage and he's quite fit. She sleeps on the couch downstairs while he sleeps upstairs in the bed! I don't have the heart to tell her how I really feel about that: deal-breaker.

Alright, one more, one of the the most disturbing thing I have ever seen in the news about girls: This young girl had gotten fat and it was so bad for her, that she actually started cutting the fat off of her legs. Fortunately her parents intervened and took her to the hospital.

Nope, I don't have an issue with fat women . . . I am their knight in shining armour.

 

[DanP]

I don't fear fat women at all. I just recognize their suffering. Really guys, this thread was not meant to be about the "health" issues associated with being overweight although it is also a real problem. Rather I wanted to emphasize the social and emotional impact of being overweight in American culture and tried to suggest a way for parents to "catch" it before it starts. Two more examples: I have two fat friends, females. One has been dating a guy for five years. I ask her, "why ain't he marryin' you?" She said he tells her, "well I love you but you're too fat". "Then why don'w you break up with him," I tell her. She acknowldeges what I already know, "what else can I find?" The other friend I have is already married with two children. She's grown quite overweight during the marriage and he's quite fit. She sleeps on the couch downstairs while he sleeps upstairs in the bed! I don't have the heart to tell her how I really feel about that: deal-breaker.

Look, I am not buying this. If she is too fat for him, how can he still date her ? Your fat enough not to be my wife, but I am still doing it with you ?

Im more inclined to think he has other reasons not to get married.

 

[Astronuc]

Rather I wanted to emphasize the social and emotional impact of being overweight in American culture and tried to suggest a way for parents to "catch" it before it starts.

But why emphasize the social and emotional impact of being overweight? Or does one mean in the thread rather to one's daughter.

Most of us probably reflect upon the physiological rather than psychological aspects of being fat or overweight. Being fit and healthy is important to one's quality of life. Being overly-concerned or obsessed with one's appearance is counter-productive.

It would seem prudent to find interesting and fun ways to engage children in vigorous activities such as games or sports. Parents can set examples, as has been mentioned in the thread, for an active lifestyle as well as healthy eating.

When I was a child, I was active outside rather than sedentary inside. I ran, jumped rope, rode bicycles, climbed trees, went swimming, and played sports like soccer. Most of that time, I was outside with other kids.

My parents simply provided their children with healty food with very little in the way of soft-drinks or sweets. Soft drinks were consumed on special occassions, not on a daily basis, which seems common for some these days.

The practical aspect of being fit as a child will probably not be appreciated until one is older than 40 or 50 when cardiac fitness and general health becomes more noticeable.

In the US these days, roughly two-thirds of the population is overweight, and half that population, or one-third of the population, is obese and consequently has a high incidence of diabetes, cardio-pulmonary problems and cancer. Many, if not most, health problems are avoidable if the right choices are made in the earliest years.

 

[jackmell]

But why emphasize the social and emotional impact of being overweight? Or does one mean in the thread rather to one's daughter.

Because the emotional and social impact of being overweight in America, especially for a female, is quite significant: she is stigmatized, made fun of, practically ignored by men, often grows to live alone and unmarried, becomes unhappy and depressed all because of her weight. Your second sentence in that quote is awkward and I don't understand what you mean.

Most of us probably reflect upon the physiological rather than psychological aspects of being fat or overweight. Being fit and healthy is important to one's quality of life. Being overly-concerned or obsessed with one's appearance is counter-productive.

The problem is that many, many women are overly-concerned bordering on obsession about their appearance, especially their weight because they have been brought up in a culture that is obsessed with slim women:

I wrote this thread because I caught a few minutes of Oprah Monday. It was about a woman over-doing her looks with makeup, plastic surgery, and her hair. She spent five hours in the morning getting made up and I think she's been doing that for 20 years. She said one of the things that stands out in her mind was when she was younger she overheard the boys saying they didn't want to go out with her because she was fat.

 

[jackmell]

Look, I am not buying this. If she is too fat for him, how can he still date her ? Your fat enough not to be my wife, but I am still doing it with you ?

Im more inclined to think he has other reasons not to get married.

I don't know Dan. He's kinda' chubby too and he's cheated on her as well. And she still stays with him. Know why? yeah, we know. Because she's overweight (and not a spring chicken neither) and would have problems finding someone else. And a few years ago she lost a lot of weight and came to see me all happy and sexy-looking and so proud of her new bod. But what happens? She gained it all back. That's another reason why it's a good reason to catch it before they grow the fat cells because once you create them, it's much, much easier to fatten them up with more fat as opposed to growing new cells.

 

[Naty1]

There are positive approaches to a healthy lifestyle and negative, unhealthy ones. Parents should focus on the positive.

Best to emphasize that eating in moderation and getting reasonable exercise is for your body like taking care of your mind by learning and thinking about consequences of your actions.

Sure it might be fun, for a moment, to jump off the roof of a house...but that has unpleasant consequences...So, too, does eating an entire box of cookies all at once seem like fun...so instead try to lead kids to think about where such actions lead and make as many sensible choices as possible. You can use examples, like the roof, that don't even involve food...

 

[DanP]

That's another reason why it's a good reason to catch it before they grow the fat cells because once you create them, it's much, much easier to fatten them up with more fat as opposed to growing new cells.

In a mature adult, hyperplasia of adypocites is very seldom observed, if at all. Adypocites can hypertrophiate 3-4 times their size easily.

However, there is some evidence that in young kids and teens hyperplasia of fat cells is present. I.e, they do develop new fat cells. This is one of the reasons that being overweight as a kid you basically get a sentence for life :P

 

[Astronuc]

Because the emotional and social impact of being overweight in America, especially for a female, is quite significant: she is stigmatized, made fun of, practically ignored by men, often grows to live alone and unmarried, becomes unhappy and depressed all because of her weight. Your second sentence in that quote is awkward and I don't understand what you mean.



The problem is that many, many women are overly-concerned bordering on obsession about their appearance, especially their weight because they have been brought up in a culture that is obsessed with slim women:

I wrote this thread because I caught a few minutes of Oprah Monday. It was about a woman over-doing her looks with makeup, plastic surgery, and her hair. She spent five hours in the morning getting made up and I think she's been doing that for 20 years. She said one of the things that stands out in her mind was when she was younger she overheard the boys saying they didn't want to go out with her because she was fat.

There are two aspects here. One is the fitness of a person, and the other is the behvioral or psychological aspect, particularly self-image or self-esteem.

If one is fit, then the concern about being over-weight most likely isn't an issue, unless there is some unhealthy psychological issue related to one's self-image.

The psychological aspect concerns how one learns to be self-conscious, and there a parent would need to provide guidance in the form of positive engagement with the child to which some have alluded. Providing positive role models would an appropriate step, and demonstrating desirable behavior on the part of the parents is another.

 

[DaveC426913]

Nope, I don't have an issue with fat women . . . I am their knight in shining armour.

Jack, this is even worse. You actually think you're doing them a favour by tolerating them despite their patheticness.

jackmell, friend of fat women.

 

[DanP]

jackmell, friend of fat women.

Saver !

 

[jackmell]

At least I back up my thesis with real-world examples. Gave a bunch so far.

So I see this fat girl on TV talking about how she doesn't like to go shopping. The people around her don't bring up the real reason why and just evade the issue. It's too painful and they don't want to hurt her. But we know why. It's a complete humiliation for her. She sees all the pretty slim girls in all the chic clothing shops and she's embarrassed to be fat there. Even the sales ladies . . . divert her to the what, oversize location? "But where's the pretty dress I saw in the window," she asks. "Well we don't have that one in your size," replies the clerk. Just an all-the-round unpleasant experience for her. Yeah, that's why for sure.

 

[alt]

I would say this is by far the exception rather than the rule. 99% of the time this will backfire.

You will note I spoke in this way, to a 20yo girl .. well, woman, who is stong minded, tough, and resiliant, - the way I've brought her up to be. I wasn't suggesting to the OP that he speak to his 6yo daughter like that ..

Well .. damn it - come to think of it .. Why not ? Why NOT speak to a juvenile in frank and direct terms. Here's another example. After 3 years of loving it, my 11yo boy gave up karate a few months ago, much against my wishes, just because he was bored with it. But I let him give it up, because that's what he wanted to do. Two weeks after he gave up karate, he had to go in a cross country race at school of several miles. He came home in agony, and was so for several days after.

"Why is this happenning dad ?"

"You stupid boy - you gave up karate, have refused to do any other sport, and have become weaker - your muscles have grown smaller and weaker. You've lost condition. You should take up karate or another hard sport again, as soon as you recover"

Within a week, he decided to take up Judo - for a bit of a change.

Was I harsh ? A little - but it had the desired effect. As I said, a little pain up front is sometimes neccessary, to avoid much pain and mental anguish later. Had I addressed him in confused, lovey dovey mealy mouth claptrap, he's still be thinking about it, and then probably forgotten all about it, and be on the path of childhood indolence.

1] Parents especially should never criticize a child's weight. There is no end to the lineup of adults whose issues can be traced back to parents who criticized their appearance, even lovingly.

I call the opposite. Parents should be direct, honest, and forceful with their kids if neccessary.

Kids are MUCH more resiliant than what most parents think - that is, unless they've been denured of every ounce of common sense by the pc 'doctor feelgood' claptrap that's been out there these last couple of decades.

There is no end to the line up of adults whose issues can be traced back to parents not showing them clear and firm direction.

2] If you really feel you must intervene, then lead by example, or at least directly facilitate. Sign up at a gym yourself doing something fun. Get them interested in the social or play aspect of it. Get them into a sport. If not yourself, then try to facilitate them having friends to go with. Drive them, get them equipment, pay for everything. Make it an enjoyable experience.

I agree entirely, and have said so in previous posts. Kids will more likely do as you do, rather than as you say.

 

[lisab]

At least I back up my thesis with real-world examples. Gave a bunch so far.

So I see this fat girl on TV talking about how she doesn't like to go shopping. The people around her don't bring up the real reason why and just evade the issue. It's too painful and they don't want to hurt her. But we know why. It's a complete humiliation for her. She sees all the pretty slim girls in all the chic clothing shops and she's embarrassed to be fat there. Even the sales ladies . . . divert her to the what, oversize location? "But where's the pretty dress I saw in the window," she asks. "Well we don't have that one in your size," replies the clerk. Just an all-the-round unpleasant experience for her. Yeah, that's why for sure.

Yes, I have no doubts scenes like this example are extremely painful for overweight girls (and boys too, btw). My daughter is teeny-tiny, and as an adolescent wore a size 00. She had the same frustrations finding clothes in her size, but was never humiliated by the fact that stores don't carry her size. Frustrated, yes, but never humiliated.

So I guess the overweight issue becomes the 800-pound gorilla in the room, for so many of these families. It's too sensitive and painful to confront directly, yet it ruins kids' lives. Like many have mentioned already, the parent's behavior is really the root of the problem. So why would a parent knowingly put their kid through hell like this? I mean, if society saw an alcoholic parent giving their kids alcohol so they wouldn't have to drink alone, there would be outrage. But substitute ice cream and cheeseburgers for alcohol, and no one says anything.

I'm not advocating policing parenting, btw, just thinking out loud...I mean, in pixels.

 

[DaveC426913]

At least I back up my thesis with real-world examples. Gave a bunch so far.

False dichotomy.

Your thesis presumes that fat people are best defined as such, as distinct from, well, non-fat people. You don't consider that body type is a bell curve and a continuum and everyone has a unique place on that curve. You don't account for the fact that people are individuals, every one has hopes dreams, strengths and weaknesses and these are what define them as people, not their acceptability of fatness (whether judged by you or otherwise).

You simply see fat and group them all together, defining them by that one trait. I hate to say it, but that is the definition of bigotry.

If we were talking about "cripples" (blind people and paraplegics as one), would it be more obvious how unfairly you are applying labels and boundaries?

(I don't mean to sound as harsh as this may seem. I'm being brutally honest, but I'm not trying to be mean.)

 

[DaveC426913]

And again, I see that your thoughts have nothing to do with your daughter, and everything to do with issues about "fat women".

 

[lisab]

False dichotomy.

Your thesis presumes that fat people are best defined as such, as distinct from, well, non-fat people. You don't consider that body type is a bell curve and a continuum and everyone has a unique place on that curve. You don't account for the fact that people are individuals, every one has hopes dreams, strengths and weaknesses and these are what define them, not their acceptability of fatness as judged by you.

You simply see fat and group them all together, defining them by that one trait. I hate to say it, but that is the definition of bigotry.

If we were talking about "cripples" (blind people and paraplegics as one), would it be more obvious how unfairly you are applying labels and boundaries?

(I don't mean to sound as harsh as this may seem. I'm being brutally honest, but I'm not trying to be mean.)

How do you mean, grouping them together? Yes I do think that society "groups together" those with BMI = 34 and BMI = 38, for example. You can raill against it, but it's a fact: society isn't accepting of fat people, especially those with morbid obesity. It isn't jack making this judgement - in fact, I don't see evidence of him being bigoted. I do see it in society though. Recently http://boo.kmark.me/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/20100214fatguyonairplane.jpg" was widely circulated. The guy didn't get much sympathy.

 

[DanP]

Yes, I have no doubts scenes like this example are extremely painful for overweight girls (and boys too, btw). My daughter is teeny-tiny, and as an adolescent wore a size 00. She had the same frustrations finding clothes in her size, but was never humiliated by the fact that stores don't carry her size. Frustrated, yes, but never humiliated.

.

A size 0 can be still considered hot. At least she could stand on the catwalk :P So the parallel is not so good.

The same can't be said about an elephant women. I agree with the OP many of those who are obese (from both sexes ) suffer from serious issues, and self perceived humiliation may be one of them. I say self perceived because the rest of us won't really care about how she looks. You just can't give too much attention to every fat thing on streets. Unfortunately, they do percieve themselves all the time in the "spotlight" and this bothers them.

 

[DaveC426913]

How do you mean, grouping them together? I don't see evidence of him being bigoted.

jack thinks he can know what's going on on the inside, based solely on what he sees on the outside. As if all fat women have the same thoguiht and feelings, and are obsessed with their weight.

He is defining the person (what they think) by the [strike]colour[/strike] quantity of their skin.

Bigotry doesn't mean you hate 'someone', bigotry means you define them and group them (put them 'in a box') based on an arbitrary quality.

What you do with them, once you've corralled them into that group is a different matter. Some people hate the people in the group, some people pretend they are doing them a favour by liking them.


(I was watching a CSI:NY episode the other night. A very attractive jock said to his blind girlfriend: "You're dumping me? But you're blind!")

 

[DanP]

How do you mean, grouping them together? Yes I do think that society "groups together" those with BMI = 34 and BMI = 38, for example. You can raill against it, but it's a fact: society isn't accepting of fat people, especially those with morbid obesity. It isn't jack making this judgement - in fact, I don't see evidence of him being bigoted. I do see it in society though. Recently http://boo.kmark.me/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/20100214fatguyonairplane.jpg" was widely circulated. The guy didn't get much sympathy.

Lisa, we do accept them, but this is not the issue. The issue is that I would never hire such a person in any public relation position for example. This is not discrimination, this is crude reality. The physical appearance of a person is important in many jobs. That aside, the physical fitness of a person is important in many jobs.

To be honest, I really don't care X or Y are fat. Their problem, not mine. But they shouldn't be surprised when certain jobs are closed to them, or when air transport companies makes them pay for 2 sits. You know what ? I pay for mine, and I want all that space, not overflowing lard from the sit next to me.

 

[DanP]

He is defining the person (what they think) by the [strike]colour[/strike] quantity of their skin.

He does commit indeed an attribution error , but many of the things he mentions are serious issues in many cases with overweight ppl, especially at a young age, in a collective with attractive healthy peers.

 

[Astronuc]

So I see this --- person on TV . . .

How often does one see well-adjusted, content people on TV? On Oprah - Dr. Phil - or worse, Jerry Springer ? It seems that the audience find dysfunctional people entertaining .

One could get rid of one's TV, and instead read books and play outside. My family used to go to the beach or parks on the weekends, otherwise, we (children) spent most of our time outside playing.

Inside, after dark, or on rainy days, I'd build models, particularly freight cars or structures for a model railroad, or mechanical things with an Erector set, or electronics from a Radio Shack 100-in-1 electronics kit. Or I'd read.

 

[DaveC426913]

You just can't give too much attention to every fat thing on streets. Unfortunately, they do percieve themselves all the time in the "spotlight" and this bothers them.

Again with the generalizations.

"They" perceive?? Reliably, they can be grouped this way?

Apparently, jackmell and DanP think that peoples' self-identity lies - not in their hearts and minds - but in the flesh on their thighs. Simply put, fat people feel X about themselves and about the world's perception of them.