Sociopathy, bullies, guns, media, ignorance - Not mental illness

[Astronuc]

Well, we could start by putting his parents in the same jail cell as Harris and Kleibold's parents. All of them failed in their responsibility. They were criminally neglegent and their failure to protect society from the threat they had full control over resulted in dozens of deaths.

Cho was an adult (age 23), and his parents are no longer legally responsible. "Cho purchased his first gun, the .22 caliber Walther P22 on February 2, 2007 . . ."

Other than have trouble socializing, it might not have been evident to Cho's parents - 6 years ago when he was a minor - that he could be a danger to himself or others. Parents are not perpetually legally responsible of their off-spring. At the time of the attacks, he [Cho] was living in Harper Hall, a dormitory just west of West Ambler Johnston Hall.

Harris and Klebold were 18 and 17, respectively, and living in their parent's home, and thus I believe they were still depends and their parents were considered guardians, and therefore legally responsible for their childrens' acts, which were apparently planned at home.

The police and legal authorities are responsible for protecting society.

It was reported that everyone around him knew of is problems and dozens of people tried to reach out to him. His parents tried to get him help. His teachers tried to get him help (and protect the school). His roommates tried to engage him. He rebuffed all attempts to socialize with him.

True, but that was in college, when he apparently had fallen over the edge. I was thinking about high school, or earlier, apparently when (?) he was bullied, which was chroot's point of reference.

 

[Huckleberry]

No, I'm sticking with the undiagnosed mental illness. According to his parents, he was always that way. Society does occasionally create psychopaths, but there is nothing terribly unique about what Cho went through that should have triggered it.

I think it's a bit soon to judge what may have caused Cho's mental illness. All I've heard about his family is a few comments from his uncle and sister. His parents were both hospitalized after the VT incident and have not commented. I'm sure psychologists will dig into his family life and start drawing more conclusions very soon. There may be something there, and there may not. Time will tell if Cho's condition was purely biological or if there was an environmental element to it.

 

[Astronuc]

I think it's a bit soon to judge what may have caused Cho's mental illness. All I've heard about his family is a few comments from his uncle and sister. His parents were both hospitalized after the VT incident and have not commented. I'm sure psychologists will dig into his family life and start drawing more conclusions very soon. There may be something there, and there may not. Time will tell if Cho's condition was purely biological or if there was an environmental element to it.

Since he is dead, it may be too late to evaluate Cho's mental health. I think various parties are already speculating on a variety of disorders, e.g. schizophrenia, Aspberger's, ASD, . . .

And what comes out is that it is apparently very difficult, if not impossible, to predict anyone person's future behavior, with current evaluation protocol.

 

[denverdoc]

Done
http://economist.com/images/20050806/CSF334.gif

Crime is at an all time low while video game sales are at an all time high. Using extraordinarily bad reasoning we can conclude that video games actively prevent violence.

Does anybody else think that people should be required to support their crackpot claims with statistics? If I were to claim that ice cream causes murder, then supported it with charts showing a correlation, that would actually have more credibility than some jackass saying video games cause crime then giving absolutely no supporting evidence. Ya know what? Telephones cause HIV. It's true, even though I have absolutely no statistics or scientific evidence to back it up!

Well lacking any links to your statistics, and first and foremost, let me just say that I enjoy video games, there is no way you or anyone can assert that behavior modelling is without influence. I see this every day, day in, day out till I'm sick of it. Those who resort to violence are trained as such, or seen another way, our violent tendencies are tempered by social conditining. This is a profound prerequisite for peace, and most primates establish a very distinct pecking order and keep it that way. Its way more complicated than this to be sure.

Lets say I saw a 13 year old kid, who was becoming more sullen and irritable, had few friends and spent his entire time playing the most blood and guts games out there, vs one who played piano and watched old musicals. Now if you were in my shoes as a psychiatrist, just which of the two would you worry about most.

Now it is more complicated as if daddy was Rambo, he'd likely have inherited higher levels of aggressivity. So both environment and genes are working in concert. But in absentia of any good modeling and left to his own devices, exposed to violence constantly as a means of solution, come on? This is where the exposue to violence is a liability. Maybe someone smart can create a kill your school bullies game, but that may backfire as well.

 

[ShawnD]

Lets say I saw a 13 year old kid, who was becoming more sullen and irritable, had few friends and spent his entire time playing the most blood and guts games out there, vs one who played piano and watched old musicals. Now if you were in my shoes as a psychiatrist, just which of the two would you worry about most.

I would worry about the one playing piano and watching musicals because it gives the impression that the kid is trying to please somebody else, and if anybody is going to snap, it's him. The kid playing games is doing it to please himself. He has lots of leisure time and he's left to his own devices. He won't need to snap because he already has his own way of venting frustration.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cv2.htm : Violent crime is at record lows
http://www.theesa.com/facts/top_10_facts.php : "US computer and video game software sales grew six percent in 2006 to $7.4 billion – almost tripling industry software sales since 1996"

That graph I posted before is from an article in The Economist (hence being hosted from economist.com), originally from a http://www.theesa.com/archives/2006EF%20Youth%20Violence.pdf .

Claiming there is a link between games and violence is as credible as claiming the Earth is flat. It may have been believed by somebody at some time, but it doesn't seem to be supported by any evidence.

 

[light_bulb]

i'll attempt to sum everyones comments up. 'you never can tell'

 

[denverdoc]

See I would take a different take. By listening to musicals or creating art, people often sublimate the rage and turn in into something positive. They have more releases to take the rage and turn in into something besides violence. There are thousands of these cases daily, and can even add myself to the list, rage from whatever source can be directed in a less sociopathic direction than a kiling spree. Course that may be even more painful, eg Bill Gates. See I'm thinking Bill is the marquis de sades now life.

It is like such complete nonsense to believe that the tools and toys at your disposal have no powerful influence on yours skills and strategies as to how to cope with danger, this is mindless. Refresh my memory when was the last musical loving, piano player convicted of mass murder?

 

[Mallignamius]

Refresh my memory when was the last musical loving, piano player convicted of mass murder?

When was the last violent video game programmer convicted of murder?

 

[Loren Booda]

Maybe more acts of violence could be prevented by parents actualizing more concern. I once heard that fathers spend on average less than 15 quality minutes with his children daily.

A dozen kids (ages 4-10) were playing in my girlfriend's condo complex today. They went mostly unsupervised in a neighborhood which, I am told, has more than its share of pedophiles.

 

[ShawnD]

See I would take a different take. By listening to musicals or creating art, people often sublimate the rage and turn in into something positive. They have more releases to take the rage and turn in into something besides violence. There are thousands of these cases daily, and can even add myself to the list, rage from whatever source can be directed in a less sociopathic direction than a kiling spree. Course that may be even more painful, eg Bill Gates. See I'm thinking Bill is the marquis de sades now life.

That's true of all things constructive, but only if it's by choice. I made the statement of "trying to please somebody else" because when I was growing up I knew several kids who played musical instruments and did artistic things only because their parents forced them to. Playing the guitar is something many kids freely want to learn, and my guitar-playing friends actually liked guitar; they would play it while listening to music. The kids who played things like violin and piano seemed to hate it with a passion because they didn't personally like piano or violin music. Have you ever seen King of the Hill where Kahn is always forcing his kid to play violin? That's exactly how it was.

I made the distinction between playing piano and playing video games in that no parent forces their kid to play violent video games. Sure there are kids out there who actually like piano, I just haven't met one yet