Surface roughness and Magnus force of a cylinder

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between surface roughness and the Magnus force acting on a rotating cylinder. Participants explore theoretical implications, mathematical formulations, and the effects of surface characteristics on fluid dynamics, particularly in the context of aerodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes the lack of an equation incorporating surface roughness into the Magnus force calculation and requests further information.
  • Another participant presents the Magnus force equation, stating that surface roughness does not influence the Magnus effect, while acknowledging its impact on drag coefficient and flow separation.
  • In contrast, a different participant argues that surface roughness significantly affects lift due to the Magnus effect by influencing boundary-layer transition and separation location, although they admit there is no straightforward equation to quantify this effect.
  • A later reply acknowledges the previous oversight regarding the applicability of the initial explanation, clarifying that when viscous effects are considered, surface roughness does indeed have an impact.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the influence of surface roughness on the Magnus force, with some asserting it has no effect while others argue it does. The discussion remains unresolved with competing views on this topic.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the applicability of certain equations, particularly regarding inviscid versus viscous flow conditions, and the complexity of incorporating surface roughness into the Magnus force calculations.

devansh rathi
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I know that the surface roughness plays an role in the Magnus force exerted of a rotating cylinder. But, i cannot find an equation that includes the surface roughness in the equation of the Magnus force. If someone could state the formula (and preferably a source to read up more on it) it would be very helpful.
 
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$$L = \rho_\infty V_\infty \Gamma$$
Where ##\rho_\infty## and ##V_\infty## are the freestream density and velocity, respectively, and ##\Gamma## is the vortex strength over the cylinder: $$\Gamma = -\oint_C \textbf{V} \cdot \textbf{ds}$$See Anderson, Fundamentals of Aerodynamics, Sixth Edition, p. 269. Surface roughness does not have any influence on the Magnus effect.
Now, surface roughness does affect the drag coefficient; turbulent flow separates from a surface later compared to laminar flow, which is aerodynamically more desirable than a laminar boundary layer that separates more quickly.
For further reading, read up on the Kutta-Joukowsky theorem.
 
Surface roughness absolutely does affect the lift due to the Magnus effect. It affects boundary-layer transition which affects separation location which affects lift. There isn't a simple equation to take that into account, though. I'm afraid you're out of luck there.
 
Boneh3ad is correct. The explanation I gave is actually only applicable for inviscid, incompressible flows, a fact that I overlooked when replying. When viscous effects are accounted for, surface roughness does indeed have an effect.
 

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