Temperature Variations of Ideal Gas in Gravitational Field

AI Thread Summary
In a homogeneous gravitational field, the temperature of an ideal gas in thermal equilibrium is debated, with two main perspectives. One viewpoint asserts that the temperature remains constant throughout the gas column due to equilibrium conditions. Conversely, another perspective suggests that temperature should decrease with height because molecules lose kinetic energy as they ascend, which would lower the average kinetic energy and thus the temperature. However, Coombes and Laue conclude that the first perspective is correct, supported by mathematical analysis in the thermodynamic limit. This discussion highlights the complexities of temperature behavior in gravitational fields and the implications for thermodynamic systems.
mma
Messages
262
Reaction score
5
Could somebody tell me, how temperature of an ideal gas varies on height in homogeneous gravitational field in equilibrium?
I mean a gas column perfectly isolated from its environment.
 
Last edited:
Science news on Phys.org
The interesting in this question is, that a thermodynamic system in equilibrium has only one temperature: T=dU/dS, so our gas column has only one temperature.
But, if we divide our gas column into horizontal layers, then considering these layers as thermodynamic systems, they will have different temperatures, because the average speed of the molecules is greater on the lower layers as in the upper ones. It is a necessity, because every molecule moving upward loses from its speed.
On the other hand, neighboring layers are connected with each other thermally, and therefore they must have equal temperature in equilibrium, so we come again to the other consequence, that our system has only one temperature.
This is a contradiction. What is the solution?
 
mma said:
Could somebody tell me, how temperature of an ideal gas varies on height in homogeneous gravitational field in equilibrium?
I mean a gas column perfectly isolated from its environment.

In non-extreme situations (i.e. planetary atmospheres), where there is also very little heat conduction, you can use the approximation of the adiabatic atmosphere.

This uses the "adiabatic gas law" for the rate of cooling as the gas expands, plus the usual hydrodynamic equilibrium equations.

See for instance

http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/sm1/lectures/node56.html
http://daphne.palomar.edu/jthorngren/adiabatic_processes.htm

If you are interested in exotic situations, relativistic effects may become important.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
pervect said:
If you are interested in exotic situations, relativistic effects may become important.
No, thank you, the non-relativistic approach is enough for me. But this adiabatic approximation seems too heuristic for my taste.
I've found an article for the single-particle distribution for an ideal gas in a gravitational field:
http://gita.grainger.uiuc.edu/IOPText/0143-0807/16/2/008/ej950208.pdf"
But how can I calculate the temperature distribution from this?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OK. Then what about this? :
http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0143-0807/17/1/008"
If a vertical column
of an adiabatically enclosed ideal gas is in thermal
equilibrium, is the temperature the same throughout
the column or is there a temperature gradient along
the direction of the gravitational field? According to
Coombes and Laue, there are two conflicting answers
to the above question:
(1) The temperature is the same throughout because the
system is in equilibrium.
(2) The temperature decreases with the height because
of the following two reasons.
(a) Energy conservation implies that every
molecule loses kinetic energy as it travels
upward, so that the average kinetic energy of
all molecules decreases with height.
(b) Temperature is proportional to the average
molecular kinetic energy.
Coombes and Laue concluded that answer (1) is the
correct one and answer (2) is wrong.
What is surprising, that concrete mathematical analysis also shows that (1) is the correct answer in the thermodynamical limit.
Isn't it interesting?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I need to calculate the amount of water condensed from a DX cooling coil per hour given the size of the expansion coil (the total condensing surface area), the incoming air temperature, the amount of air flow from the fan, the BTU capacity of the compressor and the incoming air humidity. There are lots of condenser calculators around but they all need the air flow and incoming and outgoing humidity and then give a total volume of condensed water but I need more than that. The size of the...
Thread 'Why work is PdV and not (P+dP)dV in an isothermal process?'
Let's say we have a cylinder of volume V1 with a frictionless movable piston and some gas trapped inside with pressure P1 and temperature T1. On top of the piston lay some small pebbles that add weight and essentially create the pressure P1. Also the system is inside a reservoir of water that keeps its temperature constant at T1. The system is in equilibrium at V1, P1, T1. Now let's say i put another very small pebble on top of the piston (0,00001kg) and after some seconds the system...
I was watching a Khan Academy video on entropy called: Reconciling thermodynamic and state definitions of entropy. So in the video it says: Let's say I have a container. And in that container, I have gas particles and they're bouncing around like gas particles tend to do, creating some pressure on the container of a certain volume. And let's say I have n particles. Now, each of these particles could be in x different states. Now, if each of them can be in x different states, how many total...
Back
Top