Thermo: isothermal, reversible expansion of ideal gas

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the isothermal and reversible expansion of a monatomic ideal gas, specifically focusing on calculating the work done, heat supplied, and change in internal energy during the process. The original poster presents the problem with given parameters such as temperature, number of moles, and volume change.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the work done using the ideal gas law and integration, but expresses confusion regarding the integration process and the implications of the temperature change being zero. They also question the validity of different logarithmic expressions in their calculations.

Discussion Status

Participants have pointed out errors in the original poster's integration approach, prompting a reevaluation of the calculations. There is an ongoing exploration of the mathematical principles behind logarithmic functions and their application in the context of the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating through the implications of the assumptions made in the problem, particularly regarding the nature of the reversible process and the relationship between pressure, volume, and temperature in an ideal gas. The original poster acknowledges a lack of clarity in their understanding of logarithmic properties, which is contributing to their confusion.

Ryaners
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Homework Statement


Two moles of a monatomic ideal gas are at a temperature of 300K. The gas expands reversibly and isothermally to twice its original volume. Calculate the work done by the gas, the heat supplied and the change in internal energy.
So:
T = 300K; ΔT = 0
n = 2; R = 8.314 J K-1 mol-1
V2 = 2V1
Reversible process ⇒ work is path independent.

Homework Equations


PV = nRT
W = -PdV
U = W + Q

The Attempt at a Solution


PV = nRT ⇒ P = nRT / V
dW = -PdV ⇒ W = - ∫ PdV = - nRT ∫ [dV / V] = nRT [ln |V2 - V1|] = nRT ln V1

This isn't very helpful as I have no actual figure for what V1 is.

I've tried to come up with something based on how the work is path independent (so W = P2V2 - P1V1 = V1[P2 - P1]) but I've just confused myself, as ΔT = 0 means that P1V1 = P2V2 = nRT, so that would mean that W = 0 which isn't right. I must be going wrong with my assumptions somewhere - any pointers would be much appreciated!

Edit: I'm confident that once I get past the first stumbling block & calculate the work done I can fire ahead & calculate Q and ΔU. Thanks in advance!
 
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You integrated incorrectly. Try again.
 
Chestermiller said:
You integrated incorrectly. Try again.

Aha! I see what you mean & I get the right answer when evaluating the integral like this:
nRT [ln |V2 - V1|] = nRT [ln |V2 / V1| ] = nRT [ln | 2V1 / V1| ] = nRT ln[2]

Thanks for the nudge in the right direction. May I ask: is it ever correct to write
nRT [ln |V2 - V1|]
or should it be
nRT [ln |V2| - ln |V1|]
when substituting end points in an integral of this form? Are these two expressions equivalent? (I'm now thinking they're not..?)
 
Ryaners said:
Aha! I see what you mean & I get the right answer when evaluating the integral like this:
nRT [ln |V2 - V1|] = nRT [ln |V2 / V1| ] = nRT [ln | 2V1 / V1| ] = nRT ln[2]

Thanks for the nudge in the right direction. May I ask: is it ever correct to write
nRT [ln |V2 - V1|]
or should it be
nRT [ln |V2| - ln |V1|]
when substituting end points in an integral of this form? Are these two expressions equivalent? (I'm now thinking they're not..?)
They're not equivalent. You need to review some of the math related to this. When you evaluate results of a definite integral at the limits of integration, you write ##[f(x)]_{x=a}^{x=b}=f(b)-f(a)##, not ##f(b-a)##. Also, the argument of a combined natural log term should have no units.
 
Chestermiller said:
They're not equivalent. You need to review some of the math related to this. When you evaluate results of a definite integral at the limits of integration, you write ##[f(x)]_{x=a}^{x=b}=f(b)-f(a)##, not ##f(b-a)##. Also, the argument of a combined natural log term should have no units.

Thanks, that makes it very clear. It's more that I have some uncertainty around logarithms, which I need to revise / practice again; i.e. ln(a) - ln(b) ≠ ln(a-b), which is obvious to me now but was the mistake I made yesterday without questioning.

Appreciate the help, thank you!
 

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