Thermodynamics, two engine device

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamics problem involving a two-engine device where the exhaust energy from one heat engine is used as the input for a second heat engine. Participants are exploring the overall efficiency of this system, represented by the equation e = e1 + e2 - e1e2, and the relationships between the heat transfers and efficiencies of the individual engines.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to derive the overall efficiency by relating the efficiencies of the two engines to their respective heat transfers. Some are questioning the correctness of their simplifications and the relationships between the heat inputs and outputs.

Discussion Status

There is active exploration of the relationships between the efficiencies and heat transfers, with some participants expressing confusion over their calculations and the implications of multiplying the ratios of heat transfers. Guidance has been offered regarding the correct expressions for the heat ratios, but no consensus has been reached on the overall approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a homework assignment, which may limit the information available and the assumptions that can be made about the engines and their efficiencies.

zandbera
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Homework Statement


Suppose you build a two-engine device with the exhaust energy output from one heat engine supplying the input energy for a second heat engine. We say that the two engines are running in series. Let e1 and e2 represent the efficiencies of the two engines. (a) The overall efficiency of the two-engine device is defined as the total work output divided by the energy put into the first engine by heat. Show that the overall efficiency is given by:
e = e1 + e2 - e1e2

Homework Equations


e = Weng / |Qh| = 1 - |Qc| / |Qh|
e = 1 - Tc/Th

The Attempt at a Solution


Since the first engines Qc is supplying the Qh for the second engine, I said Qc1 = Qh2, and then I tried using that equality in the first formula there but I don't think that's working out for me
 
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Write down the expression for e1 and e2.
From these expression find the ratios of Qc1/Qh1 and Qc2/Qh2.
If you multiply these ratios you, will get the overall efficiency.
 
assuming that Qc1 = Qh2,

e1 = 1 - Qc1/Qh1
e2 = 1 - Qc2/Qc1

Qc1/Qh1 = e1 - 1
Qc2/Qc1 = e2 - 1

multiplying them, i get e1e2 - e1 - e2, which is -1 times the answer I am trying to show. why is this?
 
zandbera said:
assuming that Qc1 = Qh2,

e1 = 1 - Qc1/Qh1
e2 = 1 - Qc2/Qc1

Qc1/Qh1 = e1 - 1
Qc2/Qc1 = e2 - 1

multiplying them, i get e1e2 - e1 - e2, which is -1 times the answer I am trying to show. why is this?

Your simplification is wrong.
Qc1/Qh1 = e1 - 1
Qc2/Qc1 = e2 - 1

it should be
Qc1/Qh1 = 1 -e1
Qc2/Qh2 = 1 - e2
 
thank you i got it now.
one question though: how do you know to multiply the ratios? as far as i understand, it gives you the efficiency for Qc2 / Qh1 so that would be like the energy input from the first engine to the energy output of the second engine so it would be the efficiency for the entire cycle?
 
Work done in the first engine = Qh1 - Qc1 = Qh1*e1 = Qh1 - Qh2...(1)
Work done in the second engine = Qh2 - Qc2 = Qh2*e2...(2)
So the total work done = Qh1 - Qc2 = Qh1*e1 + Qh2*e2...(3)
From the equation (1) Qh2 = Qh1 - Qh1e1
Put this value in eq. (3) and find the efficiency.
 
zandbera said:
thank you i got it now.
one question though: how do you know to multiply the ratios? as far as i understand, it gives you the efficiency for Qc2 / Qh1 so that would be like the energy input from the first engine to the energy output of the second engine so it would be the efficiency for the entire cycle?
Overall efficiency is:
[tex]\eta_T = 1 - \frac{Q_{c2}}{Q_{h1}}[/tex]

But:

[tex]\frac{Q_{c2}}{Q_{h1}} = \frac{Q_{c2}}{Q_{c1}} \frac{Q_{c1}}{Q_{h1}}[/tex]

And since:

[tex]\frac{Q_{c1}}{Q_{h1}} = 1 - \eta_1[/tex] and

[tex]\frac{Q_{c2}}{Q_{c1}} = \frac{Q_{c2}}{Q_{h2}} = 1 - \eta_2[/tex]

So:

[tex]\eta_T = 1- (1-\eta_1)(1-\eta_2)[/tex]AM
 

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