Is the Israel Wall a symbol of oppression?

[hello3719]

no... i meant the wall

 

[Adam]

I loved that exchange between Balkan and Adam, real funny,
I mean it...

I mean, this is like me arguing fevereshly about , say - what do you have
in Australia ? Environmental problems ?
I'd hear what Adam, for example, has to say, and then load him with Internet links that says totally different things (you can always find such things) - then it turns out I know better, while being half a world away.
Funny, isn't it ?

Links ? Fine:
http://www.yale.edu/yup/chapters/093454chap.htm
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0kv40
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Peace/patext.html
http://www.israel-wat.com/g7a_eng.htm
http://ksghome.harvard.edu/~.jstern.CSIA.KSG/pakistan.htm
http://www.likud.nl/extr253.html
http://www.google.co.il/search?q=Indonesia+Jihad+education&hl=iw&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&start=10&sa=N
http://www.freeworldacademy.com/globalleader/newwarcontent.htm
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_attack
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0ldc0
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0cc40
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0ia50
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_against_Israel_in_2000
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_against_Israel_in_2001
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_against_Israel_in_2002
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_against_Israel_in_2003
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_against_Israel_in_2003
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenyan_hotel_bombing
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover_Massacre

Those who bothered reading and learning will note that the links I posted lead to relevant information. You, drag, posted links about Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, a university book store, and other unrelated material. Your method of response is quite clearly "I won't read your material, but I will hopefully get people to ignore all the information you supplied by posting a huge number of irrelevant links. The sheer volume of rubbish links I post will miraculously negate all the information contained in your links." This, however, is not only illogical, but childish, ridiculous, and rather pathetic.

Unlike you, I have provided links to pages which quote Israeli textbooks.
Unlike you, I have provided links to pages with photographic evidence.
Unlike you, I have provided links to information from international organisations such as Human Rights Watch and the UN.

As we saw in an earlier post from you, in your post about "Arab and Muslim countries", your words carry a very clear anti-Arab bias. Try to avoid these personal exhortations. Stick to the facts.

 

[Prometheus]

Stick to the facts.

Adam, I quite agree that drag should stick to your facts.

On a personal note, I wonder why you use a moniker that has such extreme Jewish connotations. Are you Jewish, or did you select it for some particular reason?

 

[flippy]

First of all, the wall is not attacking anyone. It is a means of protection because the Palestinian are bombing civilians. The only time the Israeli's kill Palestinians is when THE ARMY needs to kill a terrorist which in turn potentially saves the lives of many more innocent people. I find it humorous how Adam can be brainwashed by the media. He falls right into the trap of the liberals who prey on the ignorant. My source of fact comes from experience. You see, I actually lived in Israel for a year and saw first hand what went on. I had friends that were in the areas of suicide bombings and had to be treated for shock. I know someone else who was shot and had like a 2% chance of survival. For what? Going to school there? This is clearly not a war over land, in fact the real "palestinians" are long assimilated into other nations. As for Muslims, they have plenty of land surrounding Israel. They hand plenty of chances to get their land back, barak had offered them, peres did. I know what it feels like to get on a bus and have the thought in my mind that I could be blown up. This wall at least can alleviate some of the anxiety of people living their everyday lives. BTW there are still many more walls that exist in teh world..India and Pakistan...The US and Mexico, walls don't create conflict, they minimize threat. And if youre going to get ur news from biased freelance journalists looking to brainwash you with their opinions and only present one side of the story, I can assure you that from my first hand experience actually living in the midst of it, that the press is unreliable and inaccurate and you better find a new source for your fictitious "facts."

 

[balkan]

Nor had the NAZIs arrested all Jews everywhere and put them in ghettos.

Yet.

Yet.

Now, in answer to the above three almost-points, I urge you to simply think about it. Ethnic cleansing is not an event. It is a process. Palestinians are being moved, portion by portion, into ghettos. They assets are being taken, piece by piece. Slowly, they are becoming an underclass, for most of whom only the most menial labour is available. As I said, it is not an instantaneous event, but a process. It is happening. The material I have provided demonstrates this quite clearly. I recommend you take the time to read it. You may learn something.

Please read the supplied material.

note those "yet" you have written... the "yet" is obvious proof that israel haven't done like the germans did...
whether or not they intend to, is a matter of oppinion and very hard to back up by facts... personally i think both sides are to blame equally (it's no use rubbing in the past about the israeli occupation and demolition of palestinian homes, since we only have the present to work in) and I'm quite sure the israeli government and a great part of the population, wish to totally remove any non-jewish prescense in the area... this oppinion is based on the actions and coarses they have chosen... just the simple fact that the madman sharon is still in charge says alot...

 

[studentx]

Adam you still haven't answered my question. The nazis did not change their schoolbooks before the genocide, the Israelis do, so what's up with that?
Your comparison of Israelis to Nazis is an extremely upsetting remark, one that deteriorates the conflict and brings nothing constructive, so many here rightfully wonder what is the point you are making and why are you making it? To rally support for the Israelis? This is all that youve done in this thread, and i can't let you rape the palestinian cause like this any longer. It has to end here.

 

[Hurkyl]

I forgot to invoke Godwin's law.

 

[Robert Zaleski]

I forgot to invoke Godwin's law.

And the word 'conservative' dictates the duration.

 

[Adam]

Adam, I quite agree that drag should stick to your facts.

Are you implying that the Omnipotent Adam created the UN website, among others?

On a personal note, I wonder why you use a moniker that has such extreme Jewish connotations. Are you Jewish, or did you select it for some particular reason?

Actually the name is older than the first point at which the Jewish tribe is identified as a sociological entity (around 1200 BC).

 

[Adam]

The only time the Israeli's kill Palestinians is when THE ARMY needs to kill a terrorist which in turn potentially saves the lives of many more innocent people.

You're joking, yes? The IDF has killed thrice the number of civilians that Palestinian terrorists have killed in the past three years. Please read the pages to which I have linked. I mean it. READ THEM! It can only do you good.

I find it humorous how Adam can be brainwashed by the media. He falls right into the trap of the liberals who prey on the ignorant.

Well, there's an assertion. Now what about the basis?

My source of fact comes from experience. You see, I actually lived in Israel for a year and saw first hand what went on.

I've lived most of my life around Melbourne, Australia. Do you suppose that means I know all about the Hoddle Street bombing? Does it mean I know the name and motive of the guy responsible? Does it mean I know how many people Victorian police have shot, and why, and how it was reported?

I had friends that were in the areas of suicide bombings and had to be treated for shock. I know someone else who was shot and had like a 2% chance of survival.

I know a dog who was hit by a car.

This is clearly not a war over land, in fact the real "palestinians" are long assimilated into other nations.

Well, there's an assertion. Now what about the basis?

As for Muslims, they have plenty of land surrounding Israel.

Are you suggesting that religion and geography are so linked that we should have Muslims in Area A, Jews in Area B, Christians in Area C, et cetera?

They hand plenty of chances to get their land back, barak had offered them, peres did.

Please read the links I have provided, particularly those regarding the history of the situation.

I know what it feels like to get on a bus and have the thought in my mind that I could be blown up.

Some people are scared of spiders. What do your personal fears have to do with anything?

This wall at least can alleviate some of the anxiety of people living their everyday lives. BTW there are still many more walls that exist in teh world..India and Pakistan...The US and Mexico, walls don't create conflict, they minimize threat.

Yeah, because India and Pakistan get along so well...

And if youre going to get ur news from biased freelance journalists looking to brainwash you with their opinions and only present one side of the story, I can assure you that from my first hand experience actually living in the midst of it, that the press is unreliable and inaccurate and you better find a new source for your fictitious "facts."

News.com.au, the BBC, the UN, the Washington Post, et cetera, are all "biased freelance journalists"? Sorry chum, but you really need to think a little. Read the information supplied. Think about the situation without your fear-driven bias. Then come back.

 

[Adam]

note those "yet" you have written... the "yet" is obvious proof that israel haven't done like the germans did...

Go back to Germany in 1937. The NAZIs hadn't done the ovens at Auschwitz... yet. However, they were in the process of moving toward those things. Right now, Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing. That is already happening. The IDF is already shooting Palestinian civilians all over the place. That is already happening. The segregation is a process, as I said, not an event, and it is happening. As I said, these are processes, not events, and they are processes which existed in Germany in the 1930s.

just the simple fact that the madman sharon is still in charge says alot...

It does indeed.

 

[Adam]

Adam you still haven't answered my question. The nazis did not change their schoolbooks before the genocide, the Israelis do, so what's up with that?

Is the ethnic cleansing still going on in Israel? Yes. Public access material provided by, or openly authorised by, the Israeli government is window dressing, and we can expect it to be all fluff and dandy. The situation will get worse, however. Just as Germany published lots of happy news, and told people everything was going great, while sinking the country deeper and deeper into crap.

Your comparison of Israelis to Nazis is an extremely upsetting remark,

Your emotional responses are caused by your own mind, and have nothing to do with me.

one that deteriorates the conflict and brings nothing constructive,

The dissemination of information is constructive.

so many here rightfully wonder what is the point you are making and why are you making it?

1) By what right do you speak for anyone else? Did you take a poll to find out how many wonder as you assert?

2) As I have stated so many times, I am providing information, which can be read and considered by those with some measure of respect for reality. Those who are driven by ignorance and fear will refuse to read and consider the information, and will leap to conclusions and shout about brainwashing and bigotry. Feel free to read the information or not, as you wish.

To rally support for the Israelis?

When did I ever attack the Israelies, or support them?

It has to end here.

Pfft.

 

[Prometheus]

Are you implying that the Omnipotent Adam created the UN website, among others?

Nice try. I am implying that you are making your opinion known, and that your opinion is not very popular here. You sound like you believe that your opinion is cut and dried fact. You do not seem to be aware that your opinion is an opinion.

Actually the name is older than the first point at which the Jewish tribe is identified as a sociological entity (around 1200 BC).

Do you have a citation for this as well? Adam was not a name originally, of course. It is a Semitic reference to the origin of mankind.

 

[Adam]

Nice try. I am implying that you are making your opinion known, and that your opinion is not very popular here. You sound like you believe that your opinion is cut and dried fact. You do not seem to be aware that your opinion is an opinion.

You asserted that the posts I have made thus far were my opinion only, and that I was presenting them as facts. I pointed out that I have provided information from the UN, news resources, Human Rights Watch, and other sources. I have not yet provided my personal opinion. Nice try.

Do you have a citation for this as well? Adam was not a name originally, of course. It is a Semitic reference to the origin of mankind.

Believe it or not, the languages of the current peoples of the Middle East did not spontaneously erupt one day. They evolved from other tongues, such as Akkadian, Phoenician, Sumerian, et cetera. The word "adam" seems to mean "earth" or such, and has been used in various forms in the Middle East for a very long time; yes, even predating the Israelites. One find in Syria contains tablets going back to the fourth millennium BC; one tablet there has the word "adamu" (though not in English script of course). There is the Akkadian "admu", meaning "child". Phoenician "dm", meaning "man". A dialect of Arabic has it meaning "servant". Basically, the word may come from many sources, and many of those sources have intertwined histories.

So no, it is not originally a Semitic reference to the origin of mankind.

Oh, as for the citation part: read a book. Not a religious one, but a real book, with real information. You could try the Collins Dictionary of Archaeology, page 282. You could try Encyclopedia Britannica, or Funk & Wagnall's, or any other encyclopedia. Or a history textbook might be a good place to start. Give it a try some day.

 

[Adam]

More information.

Below is a partial list of UN resolutions vetoed by the US since 1972:

--------------------------------------------------

1972 Israel condemned for killing hundreds of people in Syria and Lebanon in air raids.

1973 Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories.

1976 Israel condemned for attacking Lebanese civilians and building settlements in the occupied territories. Call for Palestinian self-determination.

1978 Permanent members of the security council to ensure UN decisions on the maintenance of international peace and security. Living conditions of the Palestinians criticised. Israeli human rights record condemned. Developed countries to increase aid to developing countries.

1979 End to all military and nuclear collaboration with apartheid. Arms embargo against South Africa to be strengthened. Support for the oppressed under apartheid.

Cessation of the nuclear arms race. Return of all inhabitants expelled by Israel. Israel to desist from human rights violations. Inquiry into the living conditions of Palestinians in occupied territories. Protection of developing countries' exports. Push to improve human rights and fundamental freedoms.

Opposition to intervention in the internal or external affairs of states. Call for a UN conference on women. Rights of developing countries in multinational trade talks to be safeguarded.

1980 Israel to return displaced persons. Israeli human rights practices in occupied territories condemned. Right of self determination for the Palestinians. Support for the oppressed people of South Africa. New international economic order to promote the growth of underdeveloped countries. Programme of action for UN Decade for Women. Non-use of nuclear weapons against non-nuclear states. Development of nations and individuals is a human right. Cessation of all nuclear test explosions. Independence for colonial countries.

1981 Promotion of cooperative movements in developing countries. Right of every state to choose its economic and social system, without outside interference.

Cessation of all test explosions of nuclear weapons. Measures to prevent nuclear war and curb the arms race. Negotiations to prohibit chemical and biological weapons. Education, work, health care, etc, are human rights.

South Africa condemned for attacks on neighbouring states and apartheid. Attempted coup by South Africa in the Seychelles condemned. Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, human rights policies and its bombing of Iraq condemned.

1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon condemned. Shooting of 11 Muslims at a shrine in Jerusalem by an Israeli soldier condemned.

Israel must withdraw from the Golan Heights. Apartheid condemned. Setting up of a world charter for ecological protection.

Support for a new world information and communications order. Prohibition of chemical and bacteriological weapons. Development of international law. Protection against products harmful to health and the environment. Development of energy resources of developing countries.

1983 Fifteen resolutions about apartheid, nuclear arms, economics and international law.

1984 South African policies in Namibia condemned. International action to eliminate apartheid. Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon condemned. Eighteen resolutions about apartheid, nuclear arms, economics, international law.

1985 Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon condemned. Excessive Israeli force in the occupied territories condemned. Three resolutions about cooperation, human rights, trade and development.

Action against Nazi, fascist and neo-fascist activities.

1986 All governments to observe international law.

Economic and military sanctions against South Africa. Israeli actions against Lebanese civilians condemned. Israel to respect Muslim holy places. Israeli sky-jacking of Libyan airliner condemned. Eight resolutions about cooperation, security, human rights, etc.

1987 Israel to abide by the Geneva conventions in its treatment of the Palestinians. Israel to stop deporting Palestinians. Israeli actions in Lebanon condemned. Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon. Cooperation between the UN and the League of Arab States. Prevention of international terrorism.

Opposition to the build up of weapons in space. Opposition to the development of new weapons of mass destruction. Opposition to nuclear testing.

Proposal to set up South Atlantic "zone of peace".

1988 Israeli practices against Palestinians in the occupied territories condemned.

1989 US invasion of Panama condemned. US support for the contras in Nicaragua condemned. Illegal US embargo of Nicaragua condemned. Acquisition of territory by force opposed. Resolution to the Arab-Israeli conflict.

1990 UN to send observers to the occupied territories.

1995 Land in east Jerusalem annexed by Israel is occupied territory.

1997 Israel must cease building settlements in east Jerusalem and other occupied territories.

1999 US to end trade embargo on Cuba.

2001 UN to send unarmed monitors to the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. UN to set up the international criminal court.

2002 UN to renew the peace keeping mission in Bosnia.

--------------------------------------------------

In December 2002, the US blocked a draft resolution criticising the killing by Israeli forces of several United Nations employees and the destruction of the World Food Programme warehouse in the West Bank.

In total, the US has blocked 36 draft resolutions on Israel.

THE VETO RECORD

USSR/Russia: 120 vetoes. Only two vetoes since the collapse of the Soviet Union
US: 77 vetoes. Blocked 36 resolutions criticising Israel.
UK: 32 vetoes, 23 times with the US. All solo UK vetoes on Zimbabwe
France: 18 vetoes, 13 with the US and UK
China: 5 vetoes

--------------------------------------------------

Sources:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,917834,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4629052-103681,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2828985.stm
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2828985.stm
http://www.globalpolicy.org/unitedstates/unpolicy/gen2003/0115us.htm
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/veto/2002/1223israel.htm

 

[Adam]

Rachel Corrie's diary: http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,916246,00.html

 

[hello3719]

only to be sure, does adam mean "first blood" ?

 

[Adam]

"Adrianne!"

 

[Prometheus]

Believe it or not, the languages of the current peoples of the Middle East did not spontaneously erupt one day.

Is this your typical condescending attitude? Or, are you trying your best to offer me your special insults with this foolish gibberish? This statement is uncalled for, it is unrelated to our discussion, and it is a feeble attempt to initiate your response with an insult. Shame on you.

Give it a try some day.

And you wonder why people on this forum think so little of your ideas and your attitude. How blind can you be?

They evolved from other tongues, such as Akkadian, Phoenician, Sumerian, et cetera. The word "adam" seems to mean "earth" or such, and has been used in various forms in the Middle East for a very long time; yes, even predating the Israelites. One find in Syria contains tablets going back to the fourth millennium BC; one tablet there has the word "adamu" (though not in English script of course). There is the Akkadian "admu", meaning "child". Phoenician "dm", meaning "man". A dialect of Arabic has it meaning "servant". Basically, the word may come from many sources, and many of those sources have intertwined histories.

So no, it is not originally a Semitic reference to the origin of mankind.

Your numeous citations here are evidence that you do have some ability. Your citations in prior posts are evidence to the same. It is your conclusions that are so poor, in my opinion. You draw conclusions that are not necessarily consistent with the facts.

Your citations do not support your conclusion in this case. You use the word "seems" and then subsequently treat this supposition as fact.

The consonantal root dm relates to blood and to red, which is the color of blood. Adamah, a related form, means the Earth in Hebrew. The Earth in question was red clay, from which mankind was considered to have sprung. The a in adam is the first letter of the alphabet. This refers to the first. Adam means the first blood, the first of mankind, who arose from red clay that makes up the eath in that region.

I consider that what I have said here does not refute any of the evidence that you presented. However, it does refute your conclusion, which is not at all based on your own evidence.

You have access to valuable information in the posts that you have made. Yet, your conclusions at times verge on the ridiculous. Your foolish attempts to insult those who question you do not increase your reputation.

 

[Adam]

Is this your typical condescending attitude? Or, are you trying your best to offer me your special insults with this foolish gibberish? This statement is uncalled for, it is unrelated to our discussion, and it is a feeble attempt to initiate your response with an insult. Shame on you.

Take a pill and relax, Dave. If you don't want me to outline very clearly what should be obvious, then don't make silly mistakes like the one to which I replied.

And you wonder why people on this forum think so little of your ideas and your attitude. How blind can you be?

Actually I hadn't thought about it at all. I have no idea what the majority of users think of my posts, and I don't really care a lot. Most people are idiots, but most are also nice people. I don't expect everyone out there to be capable of reading information without emotional bias, and absorbing it at face value. I wish they would, but I don't expect it. Now that you mention it, however, did you take a poll regarding the opinions of other users here? If so, please provide me with the link to that thread, I'll check it out. If not, then I guess you are being very silly.

Your numeous citations here are evidence that you do have some ability.

Well, gee, do you think?

It is your conclusions that are so poor, in my opinion. You draw conclusions that are not necessarily consistent with the facts.

Name a conclusion of mine whch is inconsistent with the facts. Demostrate this.

Your citations do not support your conclusion in this case. You use the word "seems" and then subsequently treat this supposition as fact.

The one fact I outlined is that the word "adam" existed prior to its use in a certain mythological use regarding the origin of the species. It is a very old word. The "seems" and "appears" refer to possible uses in earlier times. So... what's your point?

The consonantal root dm relates to blood and to red, which is the color of blood. Adamah, a related form, means the Earth in Hebrew. The Earth in question was red clay, from which mankind was considered to have sprung. The a in adam is the first letter of the alphabet. This refers to the first. Adam means the first blood, the first of mankind, who arose from red clay that makes up the eath in that region.

I consider that what I have said here does not refute any of the evidence that you presented. However, it does refute your conclusion, which is not at all based on your own evidence.

You appear to be imagining things that aren't there. My conclusion was only this: the word is older than the Hebrew language, older than the mythological use which you mentioned. The use you mentioned is one historical instance of a similar word, but certainly not the earliest. What is it you think you have refuted?

You have access to valuable information in the posts that you have made. Yet, your conclusions at times verge on the ridiculous.

Which conclusions?

Your foolish attempts to insult those who question you do not increase your reputation.

Um... Please read this quote of yours again...

 

[Hurkyl]

Most people are idiots, but most are also nice people. I don't expect everyone out there to be capable of reading information without emotional bias, and absorbing it at face value.

Assuming you are correct, then alienating them will only strengthen their bias, making them even less likely to absorb it at face value. And quite honestly, I seriously consider this to be a possible motive for your posting style.

 

[Adam]

Assuming you are correct, then alienating them will only strengthen their bias, making them even less likely to absorb it at face value. And quite honestly, I seriously consider this to be a possible motive for your posting style.

I am quite honest and straightforward. I do not hide my motives. It's not my fault if most people aren't very bright. It's just the way the world is. I'm not going to dumb-down my posts to suit others. They can simply read the information supplied and work a little. And if I refer to them as less than brilliant, it does not mean I don't like them. Most of my friends here are rather stupid, but they're ok people, and I have fun with them.

I have a style?

 

[loseyourname]

Clearly you care enough to post a response, even if it is mere opinion and not backed up by facts.

I meant I don't care if its your opinion or not, not that I don't care about the topic. Sorry for the ambiguous sentence.

Nor had the NAZIs arrested all Jews everywhere and put them in ghettos.

They did by the start of the war. They certainly tried, at least. The official state policy was that Jews were subhuman and had no rights. The policy of Israel is nothing like that. Palestinians are still acknowledged as human beings with rights, legally speaking.

Yet. Yet.

Which is all I said. If you go back to the first page of this thread, you will find yourself saying "Israel is doing today what Germany did in the approach to WW2." If all you mean is that Israel has done several things that Germany did in the 30's, well so be it. So is the United States. It seemed clear to me that you are implying Israel means to perpetrate a holocaust against the Palestinians, which is not true.

Now, in answer to the above three almost-points, I urge you to simply think about it. Ethnic cleansing is not an event. It is a process. Palestinians are being moved, portion by portion, into ghettos. They assets are being taken, piece by piece. Slowly, they are becoming an underclass, for most of whom only the most menial labour is available. As I said, it is not an instantaneous event, but a process. It is happening. The material I have provided demonstrates this quite clearly. I recommend you take the time to read it. You may learn something.

I'm not going to read any of it. I'm already aware of most of what Israel has done. I imagine you are probably somewhat better informed than I on this particular subject, and that is fine. I don't dispute that Israel is doing things it shouldn't be doing, nor do I dispute that there are similarities between measures taken today and the measures taken against Jews by Nazi Germany. There still remains one major difference.

Ah, yeah they did. I have already provided information about this. Go back and read it. To continue arguing this point without reading the available information is to blindly argue from ignorance. Just read it.

Everything you provided, that I read, was an example of Jews defending themselves against Nazi attempts to send them away. Please provide me evidence showing that Jews in Germany carried out terrorist attacks on German civilians over a period of several decades and then we can compare the respective nations responses.

Insult what?

Is the second half of that sentence blank on your screen or do you honestly just think this is clever?

The blame rests not on "Palestinians" at all, but on a small few of them, and also on the state of Israel.

Thank you. I agree 100%. In Germany in the 30's, on the other hand, blame rested entirely on the Nazi regime.

Please read the supplied material.

You know, believe it or not, some of us don't have the time to read ten news sources and go scouring the net every day. Some of us have jobs and school and girlfriends and hobbies and interests. I'll get to it if I have a chance, but no promises.

 

[loseyourname]

Let me clarify. Obviously I can't say for certain the Israel is not planning a holocaust on the Palestinian people, but it is a safe bet they are not. Several reasons at least:

- They would not be able to. The Jews in Nazi Germany had no organized resistance nor any foreign support, whereas the Palestinians have both.

- The US would withdraw its support if they did. There would be no choice.

- Israel has no interest in doing this. All Israel wants to do is partition the nation. It wants to clearly define Palestinian land and keep them confined to this land. Whatever the motive for this, it doesn't amount to a desire to see an entire ethnic group wiped off the face of the planet.

 

[Adam]

They did by the start of the war. They certainly tried, at least. The official state policy was that Jews were subhuman and had no rights. The policy of Israel is nothing like that. Palestinians are still acknowledged as human beings with rights, legally speaking.

Barely.
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1559424,00.html
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=429490
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=22&ItemID=3989
http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/07/18/story157604.html
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040713_637.html

Which is all I said. If you go back to the first page of this thread, you will find yourself saying "Israel is doing today what Germany did in the approach to WW2." If all you mean is that Israel has done several things that Germany did in the 30's, well so be it. So is the United States. It seemed clear to me that you are implying Israel means to perpetrate a holocaust against the Palestinians, which is not true.

I meant precisely what I said. Israel is doing today many things which Germany did in the years leading up to WW2, along the lines of persecuting large numbers of people based on their ethnicity. Their ethnic cleansing activities mirror very closely what Germany was doing prior to WW2.

I'm not going to read any of it. I'm already aware of most of what Israel has done.

Well, that is good. It improves my day to think that some people, at least, are aware of what is happening around them.

I don't dispute that Israel is doing things it shouldn't be doing, nor do I dispute that there are similarities between measures taken today and the measures taken against Jews by Nazi Germany. There still remains one major difference.

The difference: Time. If things go badly. I hope things do not go badly.

Everything you provided, that I read, was an example of Jews defending themselves against Nazi attempts to send them away.

Did you read the pages about organised Jewish resistance groups striking factories and such throughout WW2?

Please provide me evidence showing that Jews in Germany carried out terrorist attacks on German civilians over a period of several decades and then we can compare the respective nations responses.

Why several decades? I have provided information about it occurring over several years during WW2. Why would the period extend beyond the start and end of the NAZI regime? As for whether the attacks mentioned qualify as "terrorism", well, to me, it's when people deliberately attack civilians as a means of fighting a war or furthering some political, religious, or other such cause.

Is the second half of that sentence blank on your screen or do you honestly just think this is clever?

Start posting relevant information then, and maybe I'll revise my opinion.

Thank you. I agree 100%. In Germany in the 30's, on the other hand, blame rested entirely on the Nazi regime.

I also blame as filthy murdering scum every terrorist/resistance group which ever deliberately attacked and harmed civilians. Same goes for the bomber pilots and generals who destroyed Dresden and London and so many other civilian population centres.

You know, believe it or not, some of us don't have the time to read ten news sources and go scouring the net every day. Some of us have jobs and school and girlfriends and hobbies and interests. I'll get to it if I have a chance, but no promises.

I have two jobs, and some hobbies. No girlfriend at the moment. Hard to find one who can put up with me. However, I feel the need to know what is happening in the world, thus I normally watch three news shows in a row when I get home, and others at various other times.

 

[Hurkyl]

I meant precisely what I said. Israel is doing today many things which Germany did in the years leading up to WW2, along the lines of persecuting large numbers of people based on their ethnicity. Their ethnic cleansing activities mirror very closely what Germany was doing prior to WW2.

What you are not saying is what you are clearly trying to imply. Why you don't try stating what you are trying to imply, and back that up?

 

[Adam]

Let me clarify. Obviously I can't say for certain the Israel is not planning a holocaust on the Palestinian people, but it is a safe bet they are not. Several reasons at least:

- They would not be able to. The Jews in Nazi Germany had no organized resistance nor any foreign support, whereas the Palestinians have both.

- The US would withdraw its support if they did. There would be no choice.

- Israel has no interest in doing this. All Israel wants to do is partition the nation. It wants to clearly define Palestinian land and keep them confined to this land. Whatever the motive for this, it doesn't amount to a desire to see an entire ethnic group wiped off the face of the planet.

1) Yes, the Jews in Germany during WW2 had an organised resistance.

2) Israel is already engaged in ethnic cleansing.

3) The United Nations has tried to gain international support to get Israel to stop, but the USA blocks it every time.

4) Given the way the USA government protects Israel now, why would there be no choice? The USA government does what it likes regardless.

 

[Adam]

What you are not saying is what you are clearly trying to imply. Why you don't try stating what you are trying to imply, and back that up?

I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. What do you imply I am implying?

 

[flippy]

You want basis? Look in the Koran. The Muslims are taught that if they kill Jews while killing themselves then they will go straight to heaven and get a bunch of women up there. Over the course of time, some Muslims have taken the word of Mohammad to the extreme and some, the peaceful, civil Muslims have interpreted it differently.
Just as in any religion, there are various sects which interpret their common book differently. The extremist Muslims are the ones making this war. They are blowing up innocent Israelis because the Koran tells them to. If this was a war over land it would have been settled years ago. This is their "Jihad," and they will not "win" until they obliterate the Jews. The Jews doing what the Nazi's tried to do to them? I don't think so.

 

[studentx]

2) Israel is already engaged in ethnic cleansing.

prove please, and don't give me 25 links where i have to spend hours searching

 

[drag]

You want basis? Look in the Koran. The Muslims are taught that if they kill Jews while killing themselves then they will go straight to heaven and get a bunch of women up there.

Actually, as far as I remember the excerpts I read,
the references are not aimed at Jews at all, they
talk about all the non-believers.

Live long and prosper.

 

[drag]

You know, believe it or not, some of us don't have the time to read ten news sources and go scouring the net every day.

And some of us don't have to. Personal experience and
direct information are quite sufficcient.

 

[Adam]

You want basis? Look in the Koran. The Muslims are taught that if they kill Jews while killing themselves then they will go straight to heaven and get a bunch of women up there.

Really? Please show me the section. http://www.quraan.com/index.aspx

 

[Adam]

prove please, and don't give me 25 links where i have to spend hours searching

Well duh, the links are where you can see the proof. Read a little.

 

[studentx]

i told you before, I've read your links and they don't prove that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing