Undergrad Thermal Physics recommendations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around recommendations for studying thermal physics at the undergraduate level, particularly in light of a challenging course experience. Participants explore various textbooks and approaches to learning thermodynamics, including the merits and drawbacks of specific texts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks recommendations for self-study materials for an undergraduate thermal physics course.
  • Another participant suggests H. B. Callen's "Thermodynamics and an Introduction to Thermostatistics" as a potential resource.
  • A different participant questions the effectiveness of Callen's postulatory approach, suggesting it may be outdated compared to starting from molecular physics and statistical mechanics.
  • It is noted that Robert H. Swendsen, a student of Callen, has authored a book influenced by Callen's text, which may offer a different perspective.
  • One participant argues that while starting from the Liouville equation is theoretically valid, it may not be suitable for the undergraduate curriculum, advocating for a more gradual introduction to statistical physics after quantum mechanics.
  • This participant also expresses confidence in Callen's book for experimental-physical courses, suggesting it remains a strong recommendation despite the debate.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of Callen's approach to learning thermodynamics, with some supporting its use and others advocating for alternative methods. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to teaching and learning thermodynamics.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of classical statistics and the timing of introducing statistical physics in relation to quantum mechanics, indicating a nuanced understanding of the curriculum's structure.

HououinKyouma
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Hey guys, I have Thermal as a course in this (undergrad) semester and the teacher is very bad. Any book recommendations for me to study entirely on my own? This is what we have to cover in the course:
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H. B. Callen, Thermodynamics and an Introduction to
Thermostatistics, John Wiley&Sons, New York, Chichester,
Brisbane, Toronto, Singapore, 2 edn. (1985).
 
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vanhees71 said:
H. B. Callen, Thermodynamics and an Introduction to
Thermostatistics, John Wiley&Sons, New York, Chichester,
Brisbane, Toronto, Singapore, 2 edn. (1985).
Do you think the postulatory approach of Callen is a good way to learn thermodynamics ? I have heard that it is an outdated way of learning thermodynamics instead of building ground up from molecular physics and thermo statistics.

By the way, Robert H Swendsen ( a student of Callen ) has written An Introduction to Statistical Mechanics and Thermodynamics influenced by Callen's text.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0198853238/?tag=pfamazon01-20
 
From a theoretical point of view that may be right. You can do everything without "phenomenological thermodynamics", just starting from the Liouville equation in mechanics, but I don't think that this is a good idea in the undergrad curriculum. Classical statistics is anyway a delicate subject, and I'd rather wait with statistical physics until after the QM 1 lecture and teach it right away as quantum statistics, with the classical statistics as the corresponding limit. On the other hand in the experimental-physical course you also have thermodynamics in the 1st semester, and for such a course, I don't know any better book than Callen.
 
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