Can Shock Waves Exist in Different Reference Frames?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion explores the existence of shock waves in different reference frames, using an experiment involving a supersonic storm on Mars. It posits that while one may observe a shock wave in a supersonic flow, changing to a reference frame where the flow appears subsonic could lead to the shock wave being undetectable. However, the fundamental properties of pressure and entropy, which are not dependent on the reference frame, suggest that shock waves still exist. The key point is that the relative speed between the sphere and the gas remains supersonic, regardless of the observer's frame of reference. Ultimately, the conclusion is that a traveling shock wave would still be present, affirming its existence across different frames.
Clausius2
Science Advisor
Gold Member
Messages
1,433
Reaction score
7
Ok, imagine this experiment:

I am in Mars, inside of a supersonic storm. There is a small sphere standing inside the incident flow, and I am in a laboratory viewing the shock wave caused by the sphere. I have some pressure measurements of the flow, (i.e around of the sphere surfice), so I can demostrate the shock wave presence.

At this point, I have the idea of choosing a different reference frame for extracting measurements. I choose just a reference frame where I can see the flow being completely subsonic (i.e. the laboratory translates at some speed so that viewing is possible, by means of a galilean velocity composition). If the flow is subsonic, no shock wave will be seen at all. I suppose (certainly?) that static pressure and entropy measurements are not a function of the reference frame chosen, so I will have the same experimental figures of the first case, where the flow was supersonic.

I mean, in some reference frame I will see a shock wave, and in another I will not see one. But we know that a fluid throug shock waves have an increasing in its entropy and a strong pressure loss. This two properties are not a function of a reference frame, because are local thermodynamic properties of the flow.

What happens? Is there a shock wave? How could I demostrate that in these two laboratories?
 
  • Like
Likes Delta2
Engineering news on Phys.org
I believe you got yourself a bit confused by this one,
happens to me too. :smile:

In a "different" reference frame the relative speed between
your sphere and the gas will still be supersonic and that's
ALL you need to look at. As for the movemnt of the
gas itself - it doesn't matter weather an object moves
through the gas or the gas past the object - on a
windy day you can see that a bird can stay in one
spot or a model airplane can fly very slowly upwind and
very fast downwind - this is because the amount of
lift is constant, and lift depends on RELATIVE motion between
the geometry creating lift - object, and the gas(/liquid).

Live long and prosper.
 
  • Like
Likes Delta2
Hi drag,

Probably you are right. So I would see a traveling shock wave.
 
How did you find PF?: Via Google search Hi, I have a vessel I 3D printed to investigate single bubble rise. The vessel has a 4 mm gap separated by acrylic panels. This is essentially my viewing chamber where I can record the bubble motion. The vessel is open to atmosphere. The bubble generation mechanism is composed of a syringe pump and glass capillary tube (Internal Diameter of 0.45 mm). I connect a 1/4” air line hose from the syringe to the capillary The bubble is formed at the tip...
Thread 'Physics of Stretch: What pressure does a band apply on a cylinder?'
Scenario 1 (figure 1) A continuous loop of elastic material is stretched around two metal bars. The top bar is attached to a load cell that reads force. The lower bar can be moved downwards to stretch the elastic material. The lower bar is moved downwards until the two bars are 1190mm apart, stretching the elastic material. The bars are 5mm thick, so the total internal loop length is 1200mm (1190mm + 5mm + 5mm). At this level of stretch, the load cell reads 45N tensile force. Key numbers...
I'd like to create a thread with links to 3-D Printer resources, including printers and software package suggestions. My motivations are selfish, as I have a 3-D printed project that I'm working on, and I'd like to buy a simple printer and use low cost software to make the first prototype. There are some previous threads about 3-D printing like this: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/are-3d-printers-easy-to-use-yet.917489/ but none that address the overall topic (unless I've missed...
Back
Top