Using node-voltage analytical technique

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the voltages at extraordinary nodes (V1, V2, V3) and the currents through six resistors in a circuit using the node-voltage analytical technique. Participants are working through a homework problem that involves applying Kirchhoff's Current Law (KCL) and matrix methods for solving simultaneous equations.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents their equations based on KCL for the currents I1, I2, and I3, but later expresses uncertainty about their results, noting that the sum should equal zero.
  • Another participant suggests including the effect of V3 in the equations for I1 and I7, indicating a potential oversight in the original calculations.
  • A participant revises their equations and provides new voltage values after performing matrix inversion, but later admits to confusion and errors in their calculations.
  • There is a correction from another participant regarding the algebra in the equations, pointing out discrepancies in the coefficients used in the equations.
  • A participant acknowledges their mistakes and expresses gratitude for the assistance, noting that they often confuse circuit diagrams and node definitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views and remains unresolved regarding the correct application of the node-voltage technique and the resulting values for voltages and currents. Participants are actively correcting each other and refining their approaches but have not reached a consensus on the final answers.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about their calculations and the assumptions made in their equations. There are indications of missing steps in the algebra and confusion regarding the interpretation of circuit diagrams.

november1992
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Homework Statement


Calculate the voltage at each of the extraordinary nodes (V1 – V3), and the current through each of the six resistors.

http://i.imgur.com/VbZQH.png


Homework Equations



KCL: ƩIn = 0
V=ir
I=A^{-1}B
\Delta = a11C11 + a12C12 + a13C13

A^{-1} = \frac{adjA}{\Delta}
adjA = [C_{jk}]^{T}


The Attempt at a Solution





For I1+I2+I3=0:

\frac{V1-4}{0.2} + \frac{V1-V2}{0.5} + \frac{V1-2}{0.1} = 0

For I4+I5+I6=0:

\frac{V2-V1}{0.5} + \frac{V2-V3}{0.5} + \frac{V2}{0.1} = 0

For I7+I8+I9=0:

-\frac{V1-4}{0.2} + \frac{V3-V2}{0.5} + \frac{V3-3}{0.1} = 0


(\frac{1}{0.2} + \frac{1}{0.5} + \frac{1}{0.1})V1 - (\frac{1}{0.2} + \frac{1}{0.5})V2 + 0V3 = 40

(\frac{1}{0.5}+\frac{1}{0.5}+\frac{1}{0.1})V2 - (\frac{1}{0.5})V1 + (-\frac{1}{0.5})V3 = 0

(-\frac{1}{0.2})V1 + (-\frac{1}{0.5})V2 + \frac{1}{0.5} + \frac{1}{0.1})V3 = 10

And then I simplified that to:

17V1 - 7V2 + 0V3 = 40
-2V1 + 14V2 -2V3 = 0
-5V1 - 2V2 + 12V3 = 10


My book says I should use Cramer's rule or matrix inversion to solve this. I chose to use matrix inversion because I thought solving a simultaneous equation would take a while.


I ended up with I1 = 2.627, I2 = 2/3, I3 = 2.039

That's obviously wrong since the sum should equal zero. I'm not sure what I did wrong, I just followed the steps in my book.
 
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Cannot tell without your working.
 
november1992 said:

The Attempt at a Solution





For I1+I2+I3=0:

\frac{V1-4}{0.2} + \frac{V1-V2}{0.5} + \frac{V1-2}{0.1} = 0

For I4+I5+I6=0:

\frac{V2-V1}{0.5} + \frac{V2-V3}{0.5} + \frac{V2}{0.1} = 0

For I7+I8+I9=0:

-\frac{V1-4}{0.2} + \frac{V3-V2}{0.5} + \frac{V3-3}{0.1} = 0

You must include the effect of V3 in this equation, as shown:

For I1+I2+I3=0:

\frac{V1-4-V3}{0.2} + \frac{V1-V2}{0.5} + \frac{V1-2}{0.1} = 0

And this one:

For I7+I8+I9=0:

-\frac{V1-4-V3}{0.2} + \frac{V3-V2}{0.5} + \frac{V3-3}{0.1} = 0
 
Okay, I redid my work and I'm still getting the wrong answer. In my previous post I mistakenly wrote my answers as current values instead of voltages sinceI'm calculating the voltages at the extraordinary nodes.

17V1 - 2V2 - 2V3 = 40
-2V1 + 14V2 -2V3 = 0
-2V1 - 2V2 + 17V3 = 50

After doing the matrix inversion, I ended up with V1 = 2.85556V, V2= 0.891089V and V3 = 3.3819V.

I built the circuit on my computer and I got v1 = 2.8693V, v2 = 0.625V , v3 = 1.5057V
EDIT:

I messed up on my calculations above. I'll re-do them again.
 
Last edited:
november1992 said:
Okay, I redid my work and I'm still getting the wrong answer. In my previous post I mistakenly wrote my answers as current values instead of voltages sinceI'm calculating the voltages at the extraordinary nodes.

17V1 - 2V2 - 2V3 = 40
-2V1 + 14V2 -2V3 = 0
-2V1 - 2V2 + 17V3 = 50

After doing the matrix inversion, I ended up with V1 = 2.85556V, V2= 0.891089V and V3 = 3.3819V.

I built the circuit on my computer and I got v1 = 2.8693V, v2 = 0.625V , v3 = 1.5057V
EDIT:

I messed up on my calculations above. I'll re-do them again.

You haven't done your algebra right. You should have:

17V1 - 2V2 - 5V3 = 40
-2V1 + 14V2 -2V3 = 0
-5V1 - 2V2 + 17V3 = 10
 
Yeah, I realized that after I posted. I got the correct values now, thanks for the help.

What confused me was the top part of the circuit, specifically the 4V source between the two extraordinary nodes. When I look at circuit diagrams I usually make the mistake of assuming the corners are all nodes. So I treated the corner right above V2 as a node. I make a lot of careless mistakes.
 

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