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Prometheus
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We agree that he is repsonsible.russ_watters said:Absolutely - he's the one who got us into this mess and he's therefore soley responsible for it.
Bush led the county to war. He made a number of statements about cause and he made a number of assurances about how the war would go. You may consider these mere predictions, about which he has no control. I consider that he made purposeful statements designed to convince people to accept and adopt a course of action that they otherwise might not support, and he promoted these statements as the truth, and it turns out that many of them are not the truth. If we consider him an idiot, and therefore do not hold him responsbile for the incorrectness of the statements that he made, so what. He made statements to the American people that were not true. Statements that are not true are lies. Bush made untrue statements, which I consider are lies. I do not forgive him because he is an idiot. Feel free, if you wish.russ_watters said:Hiding what? Hiding the outcome of events that hadn't happened yet? Sorry, Prometheus, but our differing interpretations of how a "war" works and differing predictions on how long events over which he doesn't have complete control will take does not constitute a lie.
He made statements in a voice of absolute certainty, with no room for doubt. He did not preface his statements with "I think" or "I guess". How can you contend that his statements, which were designed to convince people to a course of action, and which did lead us to a course of action as planned, and which have been shown to be untrue, were not lies merely because they were statements about the future, which can never be known with 100% absolute certainty?How can a prediction ever be a lie?
So, you recognize that he was a bumbling incompetant? Fine. My point is this:Are you saying he said this while at the same time planned for a long occupation? Do you have evidence of that? No, I don't think he planned that - do you?
He made clear, unequivocal statements. These statements were designed to convince people to a course of action. If people had known that these statements were not true, they might not have followed the recommended course of action. We now know that the statements were false. Statements that are not true are lies. They are certainly lies in my mind in this case, because of his motives and his abuse of power. His stupidity cannot be used as an excuse for pushing untruths.