What is the minimum coefficient of static friction between tires and road

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a banked curve with a radius of 135 m and an optimal speed of 20 m/s. The original poster seeks to determine the minimum coefficient of static friction required to prevent skidding when an automobile travels at a higher speed of 30 m/s.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the banking angle necessary for optimal speed and the forces acting on the vehicle as it navigates the curve at a higher speed. There are inquiries about the relationship between static friction, normal force, and the forces acting parallel to the bank's surface.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered insights into drawing free body diagrams and analyzing forces, while others have expressed confusion regarding the terminology of centrifugal versus centripetal forces. The discussion is ongoing, with various interpretations and approaches being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating through the complexities of force analysis, including the roles of friction and the banking angle. There is a noted emphasis on understanding the distinction between real forces and pseudo-forces in the context of circular motion.

zerogoal
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Homework Statement


A curve with a 135 m radius on a level road is banked at the correct angle for a speed of 20m/s.
If an automobile rounds this curve at 30m/s, what is the minimum coefficient of static friction between tires and road needed to prevent skidding?


Homework Equations



N=mg(cos\theta)
mgsin(\theta)=centripetal force=mv^2/r

Quite confused with the workings for this question, anyone can help?
 
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Since the curve is banked for an optimum velocity of 20m/s that means that the centrifugal force is canceled by the component of the normal force which acts along the horizontal. Can you work out what angle the curve must be banked at for that to occur? Draw a free body diagram with the forces to help you.
 
The angle that i got is 16.8degrees
After getting the angle, do i take the static force/normal force?
Do i take the value of the centrifugal force as my static force?
Also when should i use 30m/s?
 
OK so you know the banking angle of the curve. Now what forces will be present when the car takes the curve at the wrong velocity? What are the forces parallel to the bank's surface? How much force will stop the car sliding off the track at that velocity?
 
The forces that will be present are normal force, friction, weight and centrifugal force.
Forces that are parallel to bank's surface would be centrifugal and friction.
To calculate the force that prevented the car from sliding, do i use the centrifugal force-static force?
 
Can you draw a free body diagram and analyse the horizontal and vertical components with the friction present?
 
Hey guys! :smile:

why are you talking about centrifugal force? :confused:

it's centripetal acceleration, times mass, and it equals the other horizontal forces! :wink:​
 
Indeed. I had a 50/50 and got it wrong. :redface:
 
Kurdt said:
Can you draw a free body diagram and analyse the horizontal and vertical components with the friction present?

Sorry i have made mistakes in my previous reply. I hope I'm not wrong this time wrong. The horizontal forces are centripetal force, friction and centrifugal force. Whereas the vertical force would be the weight and the normal and the vertical friction.

To prevent the car from sliding up, there must be a force acting in opposite direction and that would be friction. Since the car is sliding up, thus the friction must be acting towards the left? Therefore centripetal force + friction = centrifugal force?

Is this correct?

Horizontal: Nsin(a) + Fscos(a) = mv^2/r
Vertical: mg + Fssin(a) = Ncos(a)
 
Last edited:
  • #10
zerogoal said:
Sorry i have made mistakes in my previous reply. I hope I'm not wrong this time wrong. The horizontal forces are centripetal force, friction and centrifugal force. Whereas the vertical force would be the weight and the normal and the vertical friction.

Its entirely my fault actually, no need to apologise.

To prevent the car from sliding up, there must be a force acting in opposite direction and that would be friction. Since the car is sliding up, thus the friction must be acting towards the left? Therefore centripetal force + friction = centrifugal force?

Is this correct?

Horizontal: Nsin(a) + Fscos(a) = mv^2/r
Vertical: mg + Fssin(a) = Ncos(a)

Your horizontal and vertical equations are fine. Substitute for the friction force in terms of the coefficient of friction into the equations and solve them by eliminating a variable. You can them manipulate the equations to find the coefficient of friction.

Just a note on centrfugal and centripetal as tiny-tim pointed out. Centripetal force is a real kinematic force directed toward the centre of circular motion, whereas centrifugal force is a pseudo-force to do with rotating reference frames.
 
  • #11
centripetal acceleration

zerogoal said:
Horizontal: Nsin(a) + Fscos(a) = mv^2/r

Hi zerogoal! :smile:

The left hand side of your equation are forces …

the right hand side is (mass times) centripetal acceleration …

instead of the usual Newton's second law equation, in which the acceleration is zero, and so the forces have to add to zero,

in this case there is an acceleration, and the forces have to add to that acceleration (times mass) …

Fnet = ma …

there is no centrifugal force …

there is no centripetal force …

there is only centripetal acceleration. :smile:
 

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