What is the orientation of the vector of friction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the orientation of the vector of friction in a scenario where a circle moves in translation while a wall rotates around a fixed point. Participants explore the implications of this motion on the frictional forces involved, considering both theoretical and practical aspects of the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the assumption of a constant friction force, suggesting that the normal force may not be constant if the incline changes.
  • Another participant asserts that the vector of friction is always parallel to the wall and opposes the relative sliding motion.
  • There is a discussion about whether the friction vector should represent the force of the wall on the circular object or vice versa, highlighting the need to clarify which object is considered a free body.
  • Participants discuss the dynamics of the system, noting that the frictional force's magnitude and direction depend on the relative velocities of the wall and the circular object.
  • One participant describes a mechanical setup involving a hydraulic cylinder and a spring, emphasizing that the circle cannot rotate and that the contact point changes position.
  • Concerns are raised about energy considerations, with participants noting that the energy needed to move the circle may exceed the energy recovered from friction due to slipping.
  • Another participant mentions that if the wall is massless and has no resistance to rotation, the normal forces do not do work on it, complicating the energy analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the assumptions regarding the normal force and the nature of the frictional force. There is no consensus on the correct orientation of the friction vector or the implications of the wall's rotation on energy dynamics.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about constant forces, the mechanical constraints of the system, and the lack of specific details on how the angle of rotation varies over time, which complicates the analysis of velocities and accelerations.

  • #241
I have a question about the direction of the graphical method. I built all the drawings with the final position back to the initial, why ? (at the beginning of the thread I done that, without think of the direction) the true direction is from the initial position to the final. If I drew from the initial to the final I have less than d2, it is worst: I have less than d2. With basic examples, it is easy and from initial to final or the reverse it is the same result, here not at all.
 
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  • #242
JrK said:
With basic examples, it is easy and from initial to final or the reverse it is the same result, here not at all.
If you get different diagrams depending on what part you draw first, then that's more a problem with your consistency, rather than physics.
 

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