What to do when Wolfram doesn't give answer?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the computation of a complex integral involving trigonometric functions and constants. The original poster expresses difficulty in obtaining a solution using Wolfram Alpha and explores a substitution method to simplify the integral.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts a substitution of variables to simplify the integral but questions the appropriateness of this approach. Some participants raise concerns about the correctness of the substitution and its potential usefulness.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing alternative perspectives on the substitution method and suggesting different ways to rewrite the integral. There is no explicit consensus on the best approach, and the complexity of the problem is acknowledged.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem may be too complex for analytic solutions and suggest that homework-type problems should be posted in designated sections of the forum.

Settembrini
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I'm trying to compute following integral (Wolfram doesn't give answer):
[itex]\int\sqrt{E-Bk^{2}\frac{cos^{2}(kr)}{sin^{2}(kr)}-k\frac{cos(kr)}{sin(kr)}\sqrt{D+Fk^{2}\frac{cos^{2}(kr)}{sin^{2}(kr)}}-\frac{Ak^{2}}{sin^{2}(kr)}}dr[/itex]
where [itex]A,B,C,D,E,F,k[/itex] are constants.
Substitution [itex]t=sin(kr)[/itex] leads to
[itex]\int\sqrt{\frac{E}{k^{2}(1-t^{2})}-\frac{B}{t^{2}}-\frac{1}{kt\sqrt{1-t^{2}}}\sqrt{D+Fk^{2}\frac{1-t^{2}}{t^{2}}}-\frac{A}{t^{2}(1-t^{2})}}dt[/itex]
The last integral is equal to
[itex]\int\frac{1}{t\sqrt{1-t^{2}}}\sqrt{(\frac{E}{k^{2}}+B)t^{2}-(A+B)-\sqrt{(F-\frac{D}{k^{2}})t^{4}+(\frac{D}{k^{2}}-2F)t^{2}+F}}dt[/itex]
I don't have any idea what to do now. Maybe the substitution [itex]t=sin(kr)[/itex] is not appropriate here?
Any help is appreciated.
 
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Settembrini said:
I'm trying to compute following integral (Wolfram doesn't give answer):
[itex]\int\sqrt{E-Bk^{2}\frac{cos^{2}(kr)}{sin^{2}(kr)}-k\frac{cos(kr)}{sin(kr)}\sqrt{D+Fk^{2}\frac{cos^{2}(kr)}{sin^{2}(kr)}}-\frac{Ak^{2}}{sin^{2}(kr)}}dr[/itex]
where [itex]A,B,C,D,E,F,k[/itex] are constants.
Substitution [itex]t=sin(kr)[/itex] leads to
[itex]\int\sqrt{\frac{E}{k^{2}(1-t^{2})}-\frac{B}{t^{2}}-\frac{1}{kt\sqrt{1-t^{2}}}\sqrt{D+Fk^{2}\frac{1-t^{2}}{t^{2}}}-\frac{A}{t^{2}(1-t^{2})}}dt[/itex]
The last integral is equal to
[itex]\int\frac{1}{t\sqrt{1-t^{2}}}\sqrt{(\frac{E}{k^{2}}+B)t^{2}-(A+B)-\sqrt{(F-\frac{D}{k^{2}})t^{4}+(\frac{D}{k^{2}}-2F)t^{2}+F}}dt[/itex]
I don't have any idea what to do now. Maybe the substitution [itex]t=sin(kr)[/itex] is not appropriate here?
It's not obvious to me that you did the substitution correctly. If t = sin(kr), then dt = kcos(kr)dr. I might be wrong, but it appears that you replaced sin(kr) by t and dr by dt.

Even if you did the substitution correctly, it might not be helpful to do.

Also, homework and homework-type problems should be posted in the Homework & Coursework sections, not in the technical math sections. I am moving your post to Calculus & Beyond section under Homework & Coursework.
 
Sorry for the wrong forum.
I think I have done substitution correctly - extracting [itex]k^{2}cos^{2}(kr)[/itex] from the expression in the first integral gives:
[itex]\int kcos(kr)\sqrt{\frac{E}{k^{2}cos^{2}(kr)}-\frac{B}{sin^{2}(kr)}-\frac{1}{ksin(kr)cos(kr)}\sqrt{D+Fk^{2}\frac{cos^{2}(kr)}{sin^{2}(kr)}}-\frac{A}{sin^{2}(kr)cos^{2}(kr)}}dr[/itex]
So the expression [itex]kcos(kr)dr[/itex] is present.
 
I don't see that that is much help. Something different you might try is to rewrite this:

$$\int\sqrt{E-Bk^{2}\frac{cos^{2}(kr)}{sin^{2}(kr)}-k\frac{cos(kr)}{sin(kr)}\sqrt{D+Fk^{2}\frac{cos^{2}(kr)}{sin^{2}(kr)}}-\frac{Ak^{2}}{sin^{2}(kr)}}dr $$
as this
$$\int \sqrt{E-Bk^2cot^2(kr) - k cot(kr) \sqrt{D+Fk^2cot^2(kr)-Ak^2csc^2(kr)}}dr $$

I don't guarantee that this will be helpful, either. Where I'm going with this is possibly factoring the first three terms in the outer radical, and replacing the cot2(kr) term in the inner radical by csc2(kr) - 1.

Where did this problem come from? It looks complicated enough that it might not be solvable by analytic means.
 

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