What to do when Wolfram doesn't give answer?

In summary: The problem is that the radicand is a quartic polynomial in t=sin(kr) and the degree is higher than 4, so it cannot be solved exactly by radicals (analogously to the Abel-Ruffini theorem for algebraic equations). It might be possible to approximate the integral numerically using numerical integration methods.
  • #1
Settembrini
5
0
I'm trying to compute following integral (Wolfram doesn't give answer):
[itex]\int\sqrt{E-Bk^{2}\frac{cos^{2}(kr)}{sin^{2}(kr)}-k\frac{cos(kr)}{sin(kr)}\sqrt{D+Fk^{2}\frac{cos^{2}(kr)}{sin^{2}(kr)}}-\frac{Ak^{2}}{sin^{2}(kr)}}dr[/itex]
where [itex]A,B,C,D,E,F,k[/itex] are constants.
Substitution [itex]t=sin(kr)[/itex] leads to
[itex]\int\sqrt{\frac{E}{k^{2}(1-t^{2})}-\frac{B}{t^{2}}-\frac{1}{kt\sqrt{1-t^{2}}}\sqrt{D+Fk^{2}\frac{1-t^{2}}{t^{2}}}-\frac{A}{t^{2}(1-t^{2})}}dt[/itex]
The last integral is equal to
[itex]\int\frac{1}{t\sqrt{1-t^{2}}}\sqrt{(\frac{E}{k^{2}}+B)t^{2}-(A+B)-\sqrt{(F-\frac{D}{k^{2}})t^{4}+(\frac{D}{k^{2}}-2F)t^{2}+F}}dt[/itex]
I don't have any idea what to do now. Maybe the substitution [itex]t=sin(kr)[/itex] is not appropriate here?
Any help is appreciated.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Settembrini said:
I'm trying to compute following integral (Wolfram doesn't give answer):
[itex]\int\sqrt{E-Bk^{2}\frac{cos^{2}(kr)}{sin^{2}(kr)}-k\frac{cos(kr)}{sin(kr)}\sqrt{D+Fk^{2}\frac{cos^{2}(kr)}{sin^{2}(kr)}}-\frac{Ak^{2}}{sin^{2}(kr)}}dr[/itex]
where [itex]A,B,C,D,E,F,k[/itex] are constants.
Substitution [itex]t=sin(kr)[/itex] leads to
[itex]\int\sqrt{\frac{E}{k^{2}(1-t^{2})}-\frac{B}{t^{2}}-\frac{1}{kt\sqrt{1-t^{2}}}\sqrt{D+Fk^{2}\frac{1-t^{2}}{t^{2}}}-\frac{A}{t^{2}(1-t^{2})}}dt[/itex]
The last integral is equal to
[itex]\int\frac{1}{t\sqrt{1-t^{2}}}\sqrt{(\frac{E}{k^{2}}+B)t^{2}-(A+B)-\sqrt{(F-\frac{D}{k^{2}})t^{4}+(\frac{D}{k^{2}}-2F)t^{2}+F}}dt[/itex]
I don't have any idea what to do now. Maybe the substitution [itex]t=sin(kr)[/itex] is not appropriate here?
It's not obvious to me that you did the substitution correctly. If t = sin(kr), then dt = kcos(kr)dr. I might be wrong, but it appears that you replaced sin(kr) by t and dr by dt.

Even if you did the substitution correctly, it might not be helpful to do.

Also, homework and homework-type problems should be posted in the Homework & Coursework sections, not in the technical math sections. I am moving your post to Calculus & Beyond section under Homework & Coursework.
 
  • #3
Sorry for the wrong forum.
I think I have done substitution correctly - extracting [itex]k^{2}cos^{2}(kr)[/itex] from the expression in the first integral gives:
[itex]\int kcos(kr)\sqrt{\frac{E}{k^{2}cos^{2}(kr)}-\frac{B}{sin^{2}(kr)}-\frac{1}{ksin(kr)cos(kr)}\sqrt{D+Fk^{2}\frac{cos^{2}(kr)}{sin^{2}(kr)}}-\frac{A}{sin^{2}(kr)cos^{2}(kr)}}dr[/itex]
So the expression [itex]kcos(kr)dr[/itex] is present.
 
  • #4
I don't see that that is much help. Something different you might try is to rewrite this:

$$\int\sqrt{E-Bk^{2}\frac{cos^{2}(kr)}{sin^{2}(kr)}-k\frac{cos(kr)}{sin(kr)}\sqrt{D+Fk^{2}\frac{cos^{2}(kr)}{sin^{2}(kr)}}-\frac{Ak^{2}}{sin^{2}(kr)}}dr $$
as this
$$\int \sqrt{E-Bk^2cot^2(kr) - k cot(kr) \sqrt{D+Fk^2cot^2(kr)-Ak^2csc^2(kr)}}dr $$

I don't guarantee that this will be helpful, either. Where I'm going with this is possibly factoring the first three terms in the outer radical, and replacing the cot2(kr) term in the inner radical by csc2(kr) - 1.

Where did this problem come from? It looks complicated enough that it might not be solvable by analytic means.
 

What is an "integral with double root"?

An integral with double root refers to a mathematical expression that involves finding the area under a curve where the curve intersects the x-axis at two points, resulting in a double root. It is a type of integral that requires a specific method of integration to solve.

How do you solve an integral with double root?

Solving an integral with double root involves using a technique called integration by parts. This method involves splitting the integral into two parts and using a specific formula to integrate each part. The resulting equation can then be solved for the desired area.

When is an integral with double root used?

An integral with double root is typically used when finding the area under a curve that has two points of intersection with the x-axis. It is also used in various applications of calculus, such as finding the volume of a solid with curved surfaces.

What are some common mistakes when solving an integral with double root?

One common mistake when solving an integral with double root is forgetting to use the integration by parts method. Other mistakes include incorrectly identifying the parts to be integrated and making errors during the integration process.

Can an integral with double root have more than two points of intersection with the x-axis?

Yes, an integral with double root can have more than two points of intersection with the x-axis. In this case, the integral would need to be solved using the method of partial fractions to break it down into simpler integrals.

Similar threads

  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
4
Views
146
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
449
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
355
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
22
Views
1K
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
8
Views
246
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
3
Views
998
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
542
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
3
Views
422
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
2
Views
920
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
8
Views
765
Back
Top