Why are parents putting so much pressure on their kids?

[Evo]

My daughter is a bit distressed, she got a call yesterday from a friend to tell her that a girl they knew had just stabbed her mother to death. My daughter's best friend had been the girl's debate mentor last year. She was a nice, intelligent girl, but was known to do drugs and party hard.

She came from a strict family that demanded a lot from her.

On Friday, the girl came to school without wearing any shoes and she kept getting up and lying in the middle of the classroom floor. The school decided to send her home. Apparantly her and her mother got into a fight and she stabbed her mother to death. All of her friends are sure she was on drugs at the time.

Are parents putting too much pressure on kids? Are they demanding too much? Why do kids do drugs? I know some of you have admitted to taking drugs which to me is just nuts. Do you feel you're under too much pressure?

There are two different news videos here. http://www.kctv5.com/ Headlines

Top Story

August 20, 2005
Teenage Girl Allegedly Kills Her Own Mother

and

Girl Suspected of Stabbing, Killing Mother in Overland Park

 

[Pengwuino]

She was a nice, intelligent girl, but was known to do drugs and party hard.

Theres your problem.

 

[AKG]

I would question whether drugs were a cause of the problem. I would consider the possibility that doing drugs, partying hard, and violent behaviour were all effects or symptoms of some other problem.

 

[Evo]

I would question whether drugs were a cause of the problem. I would consider the possibility that doing drugs, partying hard, and violent behaviour were all effects or symptoms of some other problem.

Did she do drugs because her parents were too hard on her? I can't believe some of the parents of kids my daughter knows. They'd drive me to drugs.

 

[Smurf]

Why do kids do drugs? I know some of you have admitted to taking drugs which to me is just nuts. Do you feel you're under too much pressure?

I didn't start doing drugs until after my parents stopped being hard on me (around 14-15, didn't try drugs until 17ish). It was curiosity mostly. I don't anymore, although I'm still curious.

 

[Smurf]

Did she do drugs because her parents were too hard on her? I can't believe some of the parents of kids my daughter knows. They'd drive me to drugs.

Most likely. If a child is unhappy at home he/she is especially vulernable to peer pressure to try them, and then might continue to use them as a form of escapism from their parents. Most of the people I know use it as escapism. Do you know which drugs she was using?

 

[Evo]

Do you know which drugs she was using?

No, but it sounded like she was pretty out of it from the description of her behavior at school before she was sent home.

It's really sad. One of my daughter's best friend's has had his own parents call the police on him and have him arrested in their house (more than once), (one time because he broke a rare oriental vase during an argument with his dad) because they thought it would do him good. Then they sent him to a military academy, poor kid.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I think you'd have to know a huge amount about the history of this family to figure out what exactly happened here.

With a violent reaction from the girl like this, I would suspect there was a hitherto unknown mental illness brewing, that the drugs caused to explode. Most teenagers who absolutely can't stand their parents run away and become street kids, they don't kill the parents.

 

[Entropy]

If anything, children have it too easy. It's all this stupid Mtv culture and movement against spanking that are turning kids into idiots. Kids these days are rude, loud, annoying, little punks with no respect for anyone. This world today tricks kids into thinking they have it tough because they have to listen to their parents and go to school. School isn't tough, niether is listening to your parents. You don't have it tough. People in third world countries that are lucky to find a meal once every few days have it tough.

She was a nice, intelligent girl, but was known to do drugs and party hard.

That contradicts itself. I'm sorry. But if you go around and do drugs and party hard. You're idiot. Plain and simple. And unless you stop you'll continue to be an idiot.

Did she do drugs because her parents were too hard on her?

Hard parenting doesn't force one to take drugs. It's her fault and her fault alone.

 

[Smurf]

From the description I'd say LSD or Ex. Which could have made her prone to bursts of emotion and irrational thinking, which may have led her to murder her mother under stressfull circumstances (i.e. a fight). Acid especially has a way of exagerating experiences, and if they are negative can make a person really scared.

The explanation could be as simple as her taking a rather large dose of LSD and then, during the fight she may have perceived her mother as a threat and acted in (perceived) self defence.

 

[Smurf]

If anything, children have it too easy. It's all this stupid Mtv culture and movement against spanking that are turning kids into idiots. Kids these days are rude, loud, annoying, little punks with no respect for anyone. This world today tricks kids into thinking they have it tough because they have to listen to their parents and go to school. School isn't tough, niether is listening to your parents. You don't have it tough. People in third world countries that are lucky to find a meal once every few days have it tough.

Thank you.

That contradicts itself. I'm sorry. But if you go around and do drugs and party hard. You're idiot. Plain and simple. And unless you stop you'll continue to be an idiot.

You'll have to forgive me, for I'm about to call you an igorant old fool.

 

[Entropy]

One of my daughter's best friend's has had his own parents call the police on him and have him arrested in their house (more than once), (one time because he broke a rare oriental vase during an argument with his dad) because they thought it would do him good. Then they sent him to a military academy, poor kid.

Poor kid? If I even yelled or spoke in a tone that my dad didn't like he would take my head off and wouldn't even think twice about it. If I intentionally broke something because I was mad. He would of course give me a beating, and take away TV, games, and ground me in my room for a month at the least. If I did it today, he would probably throw me out and cut me off completely.

 

[LeonhardEuler]

I wouldn't put all the blame on the parents. If the daughter stabbed the mother, I would say the kid is being to hard on the parent. I'm not saying the parent's actions are unimportant, but there is personal responsibility and it is not possible to control a child to prevent her from doing anything wrong.

 

[Smurf]

I wouldn't put all the blame on the parents. If the daughter stabbed the mother, I would say the kid is being to hard on the parent.

True, true.

 

[Entropy]

You'll have to forgive me, for I'm about to call you an igorant old fool.

You aren't an idiot for having done drugs. You are an idiot if you ARE DOING drugs. Doing drugs doesn't make you an idiot for life. Everyone does stupid things when they're kids.

Oh, and I'm only 18 and I already sound like an "igorant old fool."

 

[Smurf]

Oh, and I'm only 18 and I already sound like an "igorant old fool."

I'm sorry.

 

[Moonbear]

I guess I'd lean in one of two directions. The first possibility is that Zooby is correct and she had some underlying mental illness that's the real problem and her parents ignored it and didn't get her the help she needed. The alternative is that her parents were too easy on her and she grew up wild and out of control. I see too many parents who don't set any rules or discipline and let their children get away with anything, and then when they become teens, they have learned no self-control, no proper manners, nothing to help them behave properly or function in society and then the parents cry that it must be TVs fault or the school's fault or anyone's fault but their own.

It's really sad. One of my daughter's best friend's has had his own parents call the police on him and have him arrested in their house (more than once), (one time because he broke a rare oriental vase during an argument with his dad) because they thought it would do him good. Then they sent him to a military academy, poor kid.

I wouldn't say poor kid at all. It's probably the best thing that could have happened to him to send him somewhere where he'll learn discipline and respect. If the problem is that his parents have let him get away with too much that he thinks he can just break stuff in the house when he's mad, then he's now also removed from them and their poor parenting.

Kids practically get away with murder nowadays. Parents don't seem to have a clue on how to be parents. Maybe their parents were crappy parents too and there's a snowballing effect going on here that each generation gets worse than the one before.

 

[Smurf]

Kids practically get away with murder nowadays.

actually, she's in police custody.

 

[Evo]

I guess I'd lean in one of two directions. The first possibility is that Zooby is correct and she had some underlying mental illness that's the real problem and her parents ignored it and didn't get her the help she needed. The alternative is that her parents were too easy on her and she grew up wild and out of control. I see too many parents who don't set any rules or discipline and let their children get away with anything, and then when they become teens, they have learned no self-control, no proper manners, nothing to help them behave properly or function in society and then the parents cry that it must be TVs fault or the school's fault or anyone's fault but their own.

Her parent's were insanely strict and hard on her. She was never "good enough".

I wouldn't say poor kid at all. It's probably the best thing that could have happened to him to send him somewhere where he'll learn discipline and respect. If the problem is that his parents have let him get away with too much that he thinks he can just break stuff in the house when he's mad, then he's now also removed from them and their poor parenting.

You don't know what I know, these people wanted perfection, they were always praising his older sister and criticising him. One time they had him arrested for drugs, it was his sister's. Why do people automatically side with the parents and blame the kids?

I've seen kids vomiting and crying, afraid to go home because they got a "B" on a report card. Someome needs to slap some sense into those parents.

 

[Pengwuino]

Most likely. If a child is unhappy at home he/she is especially vulernable to peer pressure to try them, and then might continue to use them as a form of escapism from their parents. Most of the people I know use it as escapism. Do you know which drugs she was using?

I know some who do it simply because there idiots. They don't have problems at home... at least none that anyone can see. I suppose no one except the family and the girl know what came first, the drugs or the 'bad home' thing. The fact that she partied hard makes me think there was nothing wrong at home because if there was... she probably wasn't allowed to go to parties and probably wanted to leave the house as soon as possible (which makes me think she wouldn't kill her mother since that would kinda ruin the whole point of wanting to leave the house... since your going to jail and all).

 

[Pengwuino]

actually, she's in police custody.

I think moonbear means that she's probably going to get released at 18 since i suppose you can only comprehend right and wrong at 18 in this world...

 

[Kenneth Mann]

Just something to think about. I don't believe that the parents are too demanding. In other times and places parents are/have been even more strict, and these problems don't/didn't develop. What I see as the main problem, is the confusing array of mixed messages that are being put out. We have parents, religion, and various authorities putting out one message, while Hollywood, advertising agencies and various "peer groups" are putting out just the opposite; to the very group that is extremely impressionable. I wouldn't want to be a child of teen ager coming up under this babel.

KM

 

[Moonbear]

You don't know what I know, these people wanted perfection, they were always praising his older sister and criticising him. One time they had him arrested for drugs, it was his sister's.

Then it'll still probably be the best thing ever for him to go away to military school and get away from that environment. If what you've heard is what really goes on, then his parents are pretty screwed up themselves and it'll be good for him to not be living under their roof.

 

[Moonbear]

I think moonbear means that she's probably going to get released at 18 since i suppose you can only comprehend right and wrong at 18 in this world...

Nope, just bad choice of words on my part. I wasn't referring to actual murder, just using a tired old cliche.

 

[Pengwuino]

Just something to think about. I don't believe that the parents are too demanding. In other times and places parents are/have been even more strict, and these problems don't/didn't develop. What I see as the main problem, is the confusing array of mixed messages that are being put out. We have parents, religion, and various authorities putting out one message, while Hollywood, advertising agencies and various "peer groups" are putting out just the opposite; to the very group that is extremely impressionable. I wouldn't want to be a child of teen ager coming up under this babel.

KM

And to add to that, kids are getting even more stimulation from the outside groups such as hollywood, advertising, etc and less from parental and religious and authoritarian groups. Advertisings everyone, there's 2 MTV channels (gasp!), Madonna is still alive... while parents are off having fun and using the extra income to hire babysitters and nanies and all that. Plus of course you have the internet which is just plain idiotic when it comes to kids. When I have kids, the hell if I am letting them on the internet. They can watch ebaumsworld and that's it, no porn, no disney... just ebaums... oh ebaums how i love you.

 

[Moonbear]

Just something to think about. I don't believe that the parents are too demanding. In other times and places parents are/have been even more strict, and these problems don't/didn't develop. What I see as the main problem, is the confusing array of mixed messages that are being put out. We have parents, religion, and various authorities putting out one message, while Hollywood, advertising agencies and various "peer groups" are putting out just the opposite; to the very group that is extremely impressionable. I wouldn't want to be a child of teen ager coming up under this babel.

KM

The mixed messages can come from the parents too, or the kid might decide their parent is demanding something their parents aren't demanding at all.

Some parents are horribly inconsistent about rules and consequences for breaking rules, and sometimes it's because the two parents haven't bothered to decide to parent together, so you get the mom telling her kid he can go hang out with his friends after school as long as he's home by dinner time and the dad getting mad because he planned to do something with the kid afterschool and he didn't come home and didn't call to let him know where he was. Or the parents cuss and yell and fight in front of the kid and then get mad at the kid when he learns to use that behavior when he disagrees with someone.

And then there are parents who are quite reasonable, but because they actually have rules when their friends don't, the kid decides his parents are ogres and tells everyone how awful they are that they don't let him do anything.

 

[Smurf]

I've seen kids vomiting and crying, afraid to go home because they got a "B" on a report card. Someome needs to slap some sense into those parents.

Yes, one of my best friends is like that. Except it's not about her parents anymore, they've made it into a habit for her. She completely fell apart when she got her last report card, she got a B in biology, nevermind the 98% in Calculus and A's in everything else.

 

[Kerrie]

Her parent's were insanely strict and hard on her. She was never "good enough".
I've seen kids vomiting and crying, afraid to go home because they got a "B" on a report card. Someome needs to slap some sense into those parents.

i can relate from personal experience to this...i hated friday afternoons, loved monday mornings. i had a 3.75 GPA (based on a 4.0 system), graduated with honors, never skipped school, and was nearly anorexic from living with parents who were extremely strict. at age 17, and prior to starting my senior year, i vowed my last year of school would be filled with being able to actually date, go to school functions and just be happy with being young. i emancipated myself and found a lady who was very understanding of my situation-i was lucky.

never did i dream of hurting my parents, just wanted to get away from them, and i did-and gained weight to a healthy level. as for this girl, she might not have known where to turn for help, and may have not had the strength of self-love to guide her out of her situation safely and correctly. what she did was wrong, but also points out something very seriously wrong with how she deals with her emotions.

as a youth, my mom always pounded it in my head how much she needed to trust me, but failed to realize how much i needed to trust her. to this day, we still don't speak 14 years later.

 

[Pengwuino]

Yes, one of my best friends is like that. Except it's not about her parents anymore, they've made it into a habit for her. She completely fell apart when she got her last report card, she got a B in biology, nevermind the 98% in Calculus and A's in everything else.

a B? ROAR! *SAMURI SWORD CHOP*

Thats how I am going to be. Damn kids won't live to see there second B, fools!

jk

 

[Smurf]

When I have kids, the hell if I am letting them on the internet. They can watch ebaumsworld and that's it, no porn, no disney... just ebaums... oh ebaums how i love you.

No Porn? Seriously? Come on peng, you should never deny your kids an education!

 

[Entropy]

Her parent's were insanely strict and hard on her. She was never "good enough".

Hmm... Well that mentality can be bad. I plan to be very strict on my kids. But I don't expect them to be perfect, I do expect they do their best and not slack off. For example, if I notice my kid studies hard, but only makes a C, I will complement him for his effort and see what I can do, personally, to help him. If I don't frequently see my child doing homework but he still pulls off a B+ (like how I coasted through high school without doing hardly anything), I will pressure him to make A's or face the consquences.

 

[Entropy]

I think moonbear means that she's probably going to get released at 18 since i suppose you can only comprehend right and wrong at 18 in this world...

You should know by atleast age six that killing someone is wrong.

 

[Smurf]

God entropy, I can't stand you self righteous types with your evangelical silly "Every man knows right from wrong" CRAP!

When I was six I had no comprehension of what murder even was.

 

[Evo]

Then it'll still probably be the best thing ever for him to go away to military school and get away from that environment. If what you've heard is what really goes on, then his parents are pretty screwed up themselves and it'll be good for him to not be living under their roof.

Actualy after a rough start, he did very well. He wasn't a bad kid, and he's absolutely brilliant, his parent's weren't "bad" parents, they just had no patience when it came to him. I see relationships between kids and their parents getting to a level that everything escalates out of control within minutes. They just can't talk to each other.

 

[Evo]

i can relate from personal experience to this...,snip>as a youth, my mom always pounded it in my head how much she needed to trust me, but failed to realize how much i needed to trust her. to this day, we still don't speak 14 years later.

It's sad you had to go through that, it's good to hear that you got away.

 

[saltydog]

They didn't have a clue what she was going through in 2005.

You oughta' have to take a test to be a parent but I digress. Young girls are saturated by the media on looking good, looking sexy, skiny, hot, popular, cool, and the pressure from guys in general about sex, drugs and alcohol. It's everywhere around them starting about I'd say 9 and reaching a crisis point at about 16. She rebelled and the parents didn't have a clue. Jesus. I don't want another daughter cus' I wouldn't want to go through the heartbreak of watching another one grow up.

Parents of daughters need to know what they're going through. It's tough for her and she'll hide it well. I say it's the parents fault: learn to know so well what your daughter is going through that she becomes transparent to you when you look at her. You can tell when that happens and she'll notice it and come to learn how much it hurts you no matter how well she hides it. That will strengthen her and help pull her through adolesence.

 

[Entropy]

God entropy, I can't stand you self righteous types with your evangelical silly "Every man knows right from wrong" CRAP!

Calm down. When did this become a religious discussion?

When I was six I had no comprehension of what murder even was.

Oh, well I knew full well people could kill other people at six. I didn't realize it was that big of a secret. Infact, I remember kids in kindergarden saying they would "kill" someone when they were mad. Of course they were exaggerating. But you get my point.

I guess I was the only one to play "cops and robbers" with toy guns and try to shoot the robbers before they escaped.

Every healthy human being has a conscious safe guard against killing another human being. It's an instict built into our psyche not to do harm to others. Many other species have an instinct not to kill each other, although some don't, we do. It is a scientific fact.

If I was a six year old and I picked up a knife ran up to my mom and stabbed her in the heart with it simply because I was mad, I would need psyhcological help, because it isn't normal. Are you imply you would have stabbed you're mother to dealth when you where six because you were angry at her because you had no "comprehension of" murder?

 

[Moonbear]

Actualy after a rough start, he did very well. He wasn't a bad kid, and he's absolutely brilliant, his parent's weren't "bad" parents, they just had no patience when it came to him. I see relationships between kids and their parents getting to a level that everything escalates out of control within minutes. They just can't talk to each other.

Well, to me that is being a bad parent if you don't have patience with your kids when it's called for, or the ability to talk when talking is needed. Someone is supposed to be the adult there.

 

[motai]

You oughta' have to take a test to be a parent but I digress. Young girls are saturated by the media on looking good, looking sexy, skiny, hot, popular, cool, and the pressure from guys in general about sex, drugs and alcohol. It's everywhere around them starting about I'd say 9 and reaching a crisis point at about 16.

True. This shouldn't be the focus, but such approaches are how money is made in contemporary society: flood them with 'how to be cool' instead of how to train them to be responsible members of society. Thousands of teenagers trying to be "cool" is an extremely profitable venture for some corporations.

It's a shame though that some parents still haven't 'grown-out' of their teenage stage, and pass their irresponsible behavior to their children.

learn to know so well what your daughter is going through that she becomes transparent to you when you look at her. You can tell when that happens and she'll notice it and come to learn how much it hurts you no matter how well she hides it. That will strengthen her and help pull her through adolesence.

Well said. Being close to one's children is paramount to keeping them from stumbling down a path that is undesirable. There are too many people in this world who perpetuate the most negative traits of human society, best not to have one's children go through it..

 

[Evo]

Well, to me that is being a bad parent if you don't have patience with your kids when it's called for, or the ability to talk when talking is needed. Someone is supposed to be the adult there.

I forgot to mention that after he got out of military school, his parents decided to go on a vacation out of the country and didn't want to be bothered with him, so they arranged with his parole officer (from the two times they had him arrested) to have him put in jail while they were gone. When my daughter told me he was going to go to jail while they were gone, I was speechless, I would have been glad to have taken him, a lot of other parents would have. This family is very wealthy, well known, involved in charities, live in a multi million dollar home, the local law enforcement were happy to put their son in jail for their vacation. I couldn't believe it.

 

[Pengwuino]

I forgot to mention that after he got out of military school, his parents decided to go on a vacation out of the country and didn't want to be bothered with him, so they arranged with his parole officer (from the two times they had him arrested) to have him put in jail while they were gone. When my daughter told me he was going to go to jail while they were gone, I was speechless, I would have been glad to have taken him, a lot of other parents would have. This family is very wealthy, well known, involved in charities, live in a multi million dollar home, the local law enforcement were happy to put their son in jail for their vacation. I couldn't believe it.

... is that even legal?

 

[moose]

There is a big difference between being a bad parent and a strict parent.

 

[Evo]

... is that even legal?

I wouldn't have thought so, but they did it.

Here was a 14 year old that loved to skateboard, loved to read, a good kid, but he and his parents could not communicate. Not to mention his slimeball sister set him up every time she got caught doing something and his parents believed her.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I think it goes both ways. Most people don't know how to be parents any more, sometimes I wonder if they ever have. And kids make really stupid choices. Doing drugs is stupid. I've known about drugs and the sorts of things they can do to you since I was in grade school and I learned about it in school not from my parents.

My family is crap. Even still my parents don't know how to be parents. About a year ago my parents found me having an emotional break down with a six pack sitting in front of me. They just gave me a pat on the back and continued on with their business like I wasn't even there.

 

[ek]

I'm sorry, but things like this make me sick.

I consider my self left wing on most topics. I'm pro-gay marriage, pro-abortion, anti-war and pro-Kyoto. But if I had my way, I'd have them put the needle in this girl's arm. People like this are absolute scum.

Yes it's an extremist view, but I believe they should just take all the addicts and kill them all off, all at once. I know it's impossible and an absolutely horrible thing to propose, but would the world not be a better place?

If you can give me a reason why the world is a better place with all the drug addicts alive I will be shocked.

At the very least dealing drugs should be a capital offense. And not just big Columbian drug lords, anybody.

The world would be a better place.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

If you can give me a reason why the world is a better place with all the drug addicts alive I will be shocked.

Do yo know how much music wouldn't have been made if it weren't for addicts? How many books wouldn't have been written?

 

[Smurf]

What exactly do you consider an "addict" ek?

 

[Smurf]

I forgot to mention that after he got out of military school, his parents decided to go on a vacation out of the country and didn't want to be bothered with him, so they arranged with his parole officer (from the two times they had him arrested) to have him put in jail while they were gone. When my daughter told me he was going to go to jail while they were gone, I was speechless, I would have been glad to have taken him, a lot of other parents would have. This family is very wealthy, well known, involved in charities, live in a multi million dollar home, the local law enforcement were happy to put their son in jail for their vacation. I couldn't believe it.

Did you try and do anything about it?

 

[ek]

What exactly do you consider an "addict" ek?

Anybody that looks like they do drugs and they do (Group 1). There are of course those who look like they do drugs and don't (Gr2) and there are those that do do drugs but don't look like it(Gr3). But invariably a lot of the third group end up in the first group.

The first group are the ones who should be killed off.

 

[Smurf]

So... anyone who does drugs? Are they killed on the first offence? If not, when? I'm assuming they get a fair trial and are proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt before being killed, correct?