What Happens to Work Done by Gravity in First Law of Thermodynamics?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion explores the application of the first law of thermodynamics to a freely falling body, highlighting that when delQ equals zero, the change in energy (dE) must equal the negative of the work done (delW). It concludes that since the internal energy of a rigid solid mass remains unchanged during free fall, both heat and work interactions with the surroundings must also equal zero. The conversation emphasizes that including both gravitational work and potential energy in calculations would result in double counting. Participants are encouraged to carefully define their system and surroundings to accurately account for work interactions in thermodynamic problems. This inquiry enhances understanding of thermodynamic principles.
vasudevan349
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
I began applying first law of thermodynamics (delQ=dE+delW) to a freely falling body.
We see that for this case delQ=0, so dE=-delW.
As dE consists of both potential and kinetic energies we see that neglecting any viscous losses, dE=0. (At max. height, KE=0,PE=mgh and at bottom most point PE=0,KE=.5*m*v^2=mgh).
This concludes that delW=0.
But what happens to the work done by gravity?
Is there any restriction placed on delW to be used in first law?
If you say that work done by the gravity is compensated by change in potential energy, how to convey this using first law of thermodynamics?
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
vasudevan349 said:
If you say that work done by the gravity is compensated by change in potential energy, how to convey this using first law of thermodynamics?
When you use a gravitational PE term, you are already accounting for gravity and any work it does. To also include a dW term for gravity would be to count it twice.

So choose one or the other, but not both.
 
It is an interesting question. It helps clarify many interesting aspects of thermodynamics.

First law of thermodynamics concerns with internal energy changes of the system as a result of interactions with the surroundings.

In the question under consideration, the system (assuming it to be a rigid solid mass that suffers no change of shape as it falls) suffers no internal energy change. Consequently the algebraic sum of heat interaction and work interaction with the surroundings must be zero. Since heat interaction is zero work interaction is necessarily zero.

Having said that, I may ask you to ponder over what your system is, what the surroundings is and how to account for work interaction between system and surroundings in any problem you tackle in thermodynamics. That helps, I hope, clarify the concepts in thermodynamics to a large extent.
 
Thread 'I need a concave mirror with a focal length length of 150 feet'
I need to cut down a 3 year old dead tree from top down so tree causes no damage with small pieces falling. I need a mirror with a focal length of 150 ft. 12" diameter to 36" diameter will work good but I can't think of any easy way to build it. Nothing like this for sale on Ebay. I have a 30" Fresnel lens that I use to burn stumps it works great. Tree service wants $2000.
Hi all, i have some questions about the tesla turbine: is a tesla turbine more efficient than a steam engine or a stirling engine ? about the discs of the tesla turbine warping because of the high speed rotations; does running the engine on a lower speed solve that or will the discs warp anyway after time ? what is the difference in efficiency between the tesla turbine running at high speed and running it at a lower speed ( as fast as possible but low enough to not warp de discs) and: i...
Back
Top