A relativistic electron in a potential box

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a relativistic electron confined in a potential box with a specified length. The original poster presents a series of tasks involving the application of the uncertainty principle, the Schrödinger equation, and the derivation of energy states, while questioning the transition from non-relativistic to relativistic energy expressions.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to apply the uncertainty principle to establish the relativistic nature of the electron's speed and seeks clarification on deriving energy states using the Schrödinger equation.
  • Some participants question the appropriateness of the Schrödinger equation for determining relativistic energy and suggest exploring the relationship between wave number and relativistic energy.
  • Others raise concerns about the calculations of energy ratios between relativistic and non-relativistic cases, indicating discrepancies in expected results.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, providing insights and corrections regarding the use of the Schrödinger equation and the calculation of energy states. There is recognition of the need to differentiate between kinetic energy forms in relativistic and non-relativistic contexts, and some guidance has been offered regarding the correct expressions to use.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing discussion about the limitations of the non-relativistic Schrödinger equation in this context, and participants are navigating the implications of the potential box setup on energy calculations. The original poster expresses uncertainty about the relativistic energy expression and the necessary comparisons to be made.

TheSodesa
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Homework Statement


In a potential box (##L = 1.00pm##) an electron moves at a relativistic speed, meaning it's momentum can't be expressed as ##P = \sqrt{2mE}##.

a) Using the uncertainty principle, show that the speed is indeed relativistic
b) Derive an expression for the allowed energy states of the electron
c) By how much (in relative terms) do the relativistic and non-relativistic ground states differ from each other? Answer: The relativistic one is 22% smaller.

Homework Equations


The uncertainty principle:
Momentum and position
\begin{equation}
\Delta p \Delta x \geq \frac{h}{4\pi}
\end{equation}

Energy and time
\begin{equation}
\Delta E \Delta t \geq \frac{h}{4\pi}
\end{equation}

Time independent Shcrödinger equation:
\begin{equation}
\frac{-\hbar^2}{2m} \frac{d^2 \Psi (x)}{dx^2} + V(x)\Psi (x) = E\Psi (x)
\end{equation}

The Attempt at a Solution


a) Using the uncertainty principle (where ##\Delta x = L##):
\begin{align*}
\Delta p
&= m \Delta v \geq \frac{h}{4 \pi \Delta x} &\iff\\
\Delta v &\geq \frac{h}{4\pi m \Delta x}\\
&=57 885 643.48 m/s\\
&\approx 0.19c
\end{align*}
Since this is the minimum uncertainty (standard deviation) of a normally distributed speed, the expected value of it must be even larger. Therefore the speed must be relativistic (Not sure my logic holds here).

b) We are dealing with a potential box, which to me implies that outside of the box, and at it's edges, ##V(x) \rightarrow \infty##, and inside the box's boundaries ##V(x) = 0##.

Then the time independent Shcrödinger equation becomes:
\frac{-\hbar^2}{2m} \frac{d^2 \Psi (x)}{dx^2} = E\Psi (x)

Let's now assume that the equations are of the form: \Psi (x) = A \sin (kx) and \Psi (x) = B \cos(kx). Then by invoking the continuity requirement at ##x = 0##:
\Psi (0) = B \cos (k 0) \Rightarrow B = 0.

On the other hand,
\Psi (L) = A \sin (kL) = 0 \Rightarrow kL = n \pi \iff k = n \pi L^{-1}.

Finally, since we chose to try the functions above as the solutions, we have in both cases:
\Psi ''(x) = -k^2 \Psi (x).

Therefore ##\Psi (x)## is eliminated from the Schrödinger equation, and we have:
E = \frac{k^2 \hbar^2}{2m} = \frac{(n \pi L^{-1})^2 \hbar^2}{2m} = n^2\frac{\hbar^2 \pi^2}{2mL^2} = n^2 \frac{h^2}{8mL^2}

This should be our solution. However, isn't this for the classical case? How would I get the relativistic version?

c) Not sure what to do here, at all. If I had an expression for a relativistic energy, this would be a piece of cake. Just take the ratio \frac{E_{relativistic}}{E_{non-relativistic}}.

However, I don't have an expression for the numerator that I could use, since I don't know the actual speed of the electron.

Help would be appreciated.
 
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The Schrödinger equation is non-relativistic. So, you can't use it to determine the relativistic energy.

The electron is free inside the box, so you are right to treat the electron as having a definite wavelength. Your allowed values of k look good. Can you determine the relativistic energy from k?
 
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TSny said:
The Schrödinger equation is non-relativistic. So, you can't use it to determine the relativistic energy.

The electron is free inside the box, so you are right to treat the electron as having a definite wavelength. Your allowed values of k look good. Can you determine the relativistic energy from k?

Well, according to de Broglie:
\lambda = \frac{h}{p} = \frac{2\pi}{k} \iff p = \frac{hk}{2\pi},
and the total relativistic energy of a particle is
E = \sqrt{(pc)^2 + (mc^2)^2}<br /> = \sqrt{\left(\frac{hk}{2\pi} c\right)^2 + (mc^2)^2}<br /> = \sqrt{\left(\frac{h\frac{\pi}{L}}{2\pi} c\right)^2 + (mc^2)^2}<br /> =\sqrt{\left(\frac{h}{2L} c\right)^2 + (mc^2)^2}.<br />
I can't believe I didn't remember this before, I just did this a month ago...

Just to check, the non- relativistic case gives me:
<br /> E = 1^2 \frac{h^2}{8m_e L^2} = 6.024 794 \cdot 10^{-14}J,<br />
and the relativistic one is
<br /> E = \sqrt{\left(\frac{h}{2L} c\right)^2 + (m_e c^2)^2} = 1.287 114 \cdot 10^{-13}J.<br />

The numbers look a bit off. If I take the ratio ##\frac{E_{relat}}{E_{non-relat}}##, I get something like ##2##, which is way off.
 
The nonrelativistic energy is the kinetic energy of the particle in the box.

To compare with the relativistic case, you should compare with the relativistic kinetic energy.

(Your calculations look good.)
 
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TSny said:
The nonrelativistic energy is the kinetic energy of the particle in the box.

To compare with the relativistic case, you should compare with the relativistic kinetic energy.

(Your calculations look good.)

Yeah, that was it.

E = \sqrt{\left( \frac{h}{2L} c \right)^2 + m^2c^4}-mc^2. This gives the correct answer.

Thanks.
 

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