Color in matrix element calculation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the matrix element for a process involving an incoming up quark and gluon that interact, resulting in the emission of a photon and another up quark. The focus is on the handling of color factors in the matrix element and the implications of color representations in quantum chromodynamics (QCD).

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how to handle the color factor \( t^a \) in their matrix element calculation, questioning whether to include a color part for the up quark.
  • Another participant points out that quarks carry color indices and suggests that the matrix element should reflect this, indicating a structure involving \( \bar{u}_i \ldots (t^a)_{ik} \ldots u_k \).
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of the proposed Feynman diagram, with one participant noting that it is unusual to have external gluon lines and questioning the coupling of quark-photon interactions in the same representation as quark-gluon interactions.
  • Further clarification is sought regarding the implications of color representations in QCD, with a participant explaining that QCD processes typically transition from color singlet to color singlet, and that the proposed process may not adhere to this due to representation issues.
  • One participant clarifies that their process is part of a proton-proton collision, where a quark and a gluon from the respective protons interact.
  • Another participant inquires about the four-momentum of the quark and gluon, suggesting that it could be derived from the structure functions of the proton or integrated over momentum fractions later in the calculation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the proposed diagram and the handling of color factors. There is no consensus on the appropriateness of the diagram or the implications of color representations in the context of the discussed process.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in understanding the coupling of different color representations and the physicality of the incoming state in the proposed process. There are unresolved questions regarding the integration of momentum fractions and the overall structure of the calculation.

kaksmet
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Hello!

I am trying to calculate the matrix element of the process where an incoming upp quark and gluon interact via an upquark and emit a photon and an upquark.

---u(p1)->--~~gamma(p3)~~
|​
|​
u(q)​
|​
|​
~~g(p2)~~~-------u(p4)-------

from the gluon vertex I get a color factor [tex]t^a[/tex] which I am not sure how to handle. My matrix element then looks like this
[tex]\bar{u}^s(p_4)ig_s \gamma^{mu}t^a\epsilon_{\mu}(p_2)\frac{\gamma^{\alpha}q_{\alpha} + m}{q^2-m^2}\epsilon^*_{\nu}(p_3)iQ_ue\gamma^{\nu}u^s(p_1)[/tex]

But there must be something that I am missing, since [tex]t^a[/tex] is a matrix it seems like my matrix element has the matrix dimensions of [tex]t^a[/tex]. Should I include a color part of the u quark? And if so, how does that work? Any reference where I could read more about it?

Thanks a lot for any imput!
 
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kaksmet said:
Hello!

I am trying to calculate the matrix element of the process where an incoming upp quark and gluon interact via an upquark and emit a photon and an upquark.

---u(p1)->--~~gamma(p3)~~
|​
|​
u(q)​
|​
|​
~~g(p2)~~~-------u(p4)-------

from the gluon vertex I get a color factor [tex]t^a[/tex] which I am not sure how to handle. My matrix element then looks like this
[tex]\bar{u}^s(p_4)ig_s \gamma^{mu}t^a\epsilon_{\mu}(p_2)\frac{\gamma^{\alpha}q_{\alpha} + m}{q^2-m^2}\epsilon^*_{\nu}(p_3)iQ_ue\gamma^{\nu}u^s(p_1)[/tex]

But there must be something that I am missing, since [tex]t^a[/tex] is a matrix it seems like my matrix element has the matrix dimensions of [tex]t^a[/tex]. Should I include a color part of the u quark? And if so, how does that work? Any reference where I could read more about it?

Thanks a lot for any imput!
The quarks are carrying color indices as well:
[tex]\bar{u}_i \ldots (t^a)_{ik} \ldots u_k[/tex]

But you diagram looks strange; I am not sure if you can couple the quark-photon in the same representation as the quark-gluon part.
 
tom.stoer said:
The quarks are carrying color indices as well:
[tex]\bar{u}_i \ldots (t^a)_{ik} \ldots u_k[/tex]

But you diagram looks strange; I am not sure if you can couple the quark-photon in the same representation as the quark-gluon part.

Thanks for the help with the color part, will try do continue with it now.

However, could you elaborate a bit more about why the diagram would be wrong? I do not quite understand what you mean with "in the same representation"? How would you otherwise draw a diagram where a quark first emits a photon and then absorbs a gluon (or the other way around)?
 
I do not say that it's wrong, but that the process you are trying to calculate looks rather strange. Usually you do not have external gluon lines.

"In the same representation" is misleading, sorry for that. What I mean is the following (I hope I remember correctly): usually QCD processes go from color singlet to color singlet; but a quark plus a gluon couple to 3*8 = 3*(3*3') which does not yield a singlet but a triplet as smallest rep. This is afaik due to the 3' which is the conjugate rep. of 3 (in SU(2) the doublet 2 and the conjugate doublet 2' are identical, in SU(3) this is no longer true).

In SU(3) you can couple 3*3*3 = 1 + higher reps. but for 3*3*3' this does not work. This is what I mean by "in the other representation".

Enforcing a color singlet condition means that your incoming state is unphysical. So your process has to be part of something more complex which I do not understand.
 
My process is a part of a pp collision, where a quark and a gluon from respective proton interact.
 
So you now both the four-momentum of the quark and of the gluon e.g. from the structure functions of the proton?
 
Well, either that or alternatively that I will integrate over the momentum fractions in a later part of the calculation.
 

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