Complex Summation: Understanding Discrete Time Function

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The discussion revolves around evaluating a complex summation involving a discrete time function, specifically addressing the challenge of resolving a 0/0 indeterminate form when k equals 0. The user initially attempted to manipulate the fraction using a summation formula and factoring techniques, ultimately discovering that applying l'Hospital's rule is necessary to evaluate the limit at critical points. The conversation highlights the importance of recognizing the behavior of the function as k approaches specific integer values, particularly multiples of 5.

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  • Understanding of discrete time functions
  • Familiarity with summation formulas
  • Knowledge of l'Hospital's rule for limits
  • Basic trigonometric identities involving sine and cosine
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This is not really a homework problem, but I'm studying a text, and I came across this:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4586/sumh.jpg

I know how to get that fraction with the exponents in it (using a summation formula). But for the life of me, I can't figure out how to manipulate that fraction to give the final result.

For example, if I put k=0 into that fraction, I get 0/0, not 5. I tried a bunch of manipulation of the fraction to get sines and cosines, and make the denominator real, but I still can't get a closed form solution that gives the final result.

What am I missing?

Thanks!

UPDATE: Forgot to mention, this is a discrete time function. k is always an integer.
 
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I totally forgot about that factoring trick:

<br /> 1-e^{-j x} = e^{-j x/2}(e^{j x/2}-e^{-j x/2}) = e^{-j x/2}jsin(x/2)<br />

That's all I needed!

UPDATE:

Wait, I was wrong. :frown: :frown:

Even with that factoring trick, I get:

<br /> e^{-j(\pi k-\pi k/5)}*sin(\pi k)/sin(\pi k/5)<br />

But this is still 0/0 for k=0. How do I get the real result?? I'm so frustrated with this! :confused:
 
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No matter what k is, the top is 0. If k is not 0,+/-5,+/-10,..., then the bottom is not 0, so that is how they get 0 for otherwise. For k=0,+/-5,+/-10,..., you need to find the limit as k approaches those values, because 0/0 has no meaning. Use l'Hospital's rule to evaluate your function at those points.
 
n!kofeyn said:
No matter what k is, the top is 0. If k is not 0,+/-5,+/-10,..., then the bottom is not 0, so that is how they get 0 for otherwise. For k=0,+/-5,+/-10,..., you need to find the limit as k approaches those values, because 0/0 has no meaning. Use l'Hospital's rule to evaluate your function at those points.

Thanks, that makes sense.

Also, instead of going to L'Hospital's rule, I could just go back to the summation for k=0,+-5, etc and show that it is a summation of ones... while the fraction would prove the "0 otherwise" for the other k values. This would work too.

Thanks a lot!
 
No problem. Yea, you're right about the summation giving you the five.
 

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