Compressed air problem (pressure and flow rate calculations)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculations related to pressure and flow rate in compressed air systems, particularly in the context of pneumatic tools and the impact of system components such as pipes and filters on performance. Participants explore how to make predictions about flow rates based on known parameters and system characteristics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks guidance on predicting pressure and flow rate in a compressed air system, providing specific parameters for a compressor and a pneumatic tool.
  • Another participant suggests consulting "Transport Phenomena" for macroscopic balances related to flow calculations.
  • Multiple participants recommend the book "Compressed Air and Gas Data" for its practical tables on line loss, which could aid in making rough predictions.
  • There is a discussion about the variability of flow rate depending on the system configuration, with one participant emphasizing that flow rate is influenced by the specific requirements of the tool and the pressure drop across the system components.
  • A later reply clarifies that the pressure drop is determined by the load rather than the supply device, suggesting a need to approach the problem from the tool's requirements backward.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of understanding the system's requirements and the influence of components on flow rate. However, there is some contention regarding the approach to calculating flow rates and the role of the supply device versus the load.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the specific pressure drops and flow rates, indicating that these depend on various factors within the system. There are references to resources that could provide more detailed information, but no consensus on a definitive method for calculations is reached.

tenichols94
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TL;DR
When dealing with a compressed air system I would like to know how to make some calculations to predict pressure and flow rate throughout a system.
When dealing with a compressed air system I would like to know how to make some calculations to predict pressure and flow rate throughout a system.

e.g.
If I have a compressor that can supply 50 cfm @ 100 psi at the source, and the air flows through a system of pipes, filters, turns, etc. which causes head loss, and let's assume the head loss is known. If I have a pneumatic tool that runs at 75 psi, what type of flow rate could I expect?

This type of question is common is industry and I found it difficult to find resources regarding this type of question. Yes, there is general information but no clear way to make "rough" predictions.
 
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See Bird, Stewart, and Lightfoot, Transport Phenomena chapter on macroscopic balances
 
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Get a copy of Compressed Air and Gas Data, Second Edition, edited by Charles W. Gibbs. It's out of print, but available used from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000YB9ZJ2/?tag=pfamazon01-20. If you are working with compressed air, this book should be on your desk.

Chapter 34 has tables giving the line loss for various sizes pipe, pressures, and flow rates. Exactly what you need for good rough predictions. You will need to get the air flow rate for a specific tool from the manufacturer.
 
jrmichler said:
Get a copy of Compressed Air and Gas Data, Second Edition, edited by Charles W. Gibbs. It's out of print, but available used from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000YB9ZJ2/?tag=pfamazon01-20. If you are working with compressed air, this book should be on your desk.

Chapter 34 has tables giving the line loss for various sizes pipe, pressures, and flow rates. Exactly what you need for good rough predictions. You will need to get the air flow rate for a specific tool from the manufacturer.
Wouldn't the air flow rate depend vary? If the gauge at the tool is set @75psi for example, wouldn't the flow rate depend on the system? That's what I'm struggling with.
 
tenichols94 said:
wouldn't the flow rate depend on the system
Yes.
tenichols94 said:
That's what I'm struggling with.
Get the book! It is a good one, and practical.
I found it difficult to find resources regarding this type of question.
Get the book! It is only ten dollars.
 
gmax137 said:
Yes.

Get the book! It is a good one, and practical.

Get the book! It is only ten dollars.
I'll check it out. Thanks!
 
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I'll expand a little...
tenichols94 said:
Wouldn't the air flow rate depend vary?
Yes! You have to work a problem like this backwards from the tool. The tool has a specific flow rate required, at a specific pressure. Then every component in the system (pipes, filters, turns, etc.), also has a specific pressure drop at that required flow rate. Add them all up with a spreadsheet, and you get a total pressure requirement at the source.

So this statement is backwards:
If I have a compressor that can supply 50 cfm @ 100 psi at the source, and the air flows through a system of pipes, filters, turns, etc. which causes head loss, and let's assume the head loss is known. If I have a pneumatic tool that runs at 75 psi, what type of flow rate could I expect?
The pressure drop through the system isn't known based on the supply device, it is determined based on the load. The supply device just needs to be able to supply enough flow at enough pressure to satisfy the system and load.
 
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