Derivation of an identity for ##\partial^2_t \int T^{00}(x^i x_i)^2d^3

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of an identity involving the time derivative of an integral of the energy-momentum tensor \( T^{00} \) multiplied by the square of the spatial coordinates \( (x^i x_i)^2 \). Participants are examining the mathematical steps involved in this derivation, focusing on the application of derivatives and the manipulation of tensor notation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents their calculations and requests feedback on potential mistakes, indicating uncertainty in their derivation process.
  • Another participant suggests a correction regarding the notation used for the derivative of \( (x_i x^i)^2 \), proposing that it should be expressed as \( 4 x_k (x_j x^j) \).
  • There is a discussion about the interpretation of the expression \( (x_i x^i)^2 \), with one participant asserting that it should be expanded to avoid ambiguity, while another defends the original notation as clear.
  • Multiple participants engage in deriving the derivative of \( (x_i x^i)^2 \) and arrive at the same result, indicating a shared understanding of the mathematical manipulation involved.
  • One participant acknowledges confusion stemming from differing conventions in notation between physics and pure mathematics, highlighting the challenges in maintaining clarity across disciplines.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no clear consensus on the notation and its implications, as some participants defend their interpretations while others suggest corrections. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to express the mathematical identities involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the notation and its implications, with references to the "no index more than twice" rule and Einstein summation convention. There is a recognition of the potential for confusion when transitioning between different mathematical contexts.

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TL;DR
I want to show the identity:
##\partial^2_t \int T^{00}(x^i x_i)^2 d^3x = 4\int T^i_i x^j x_j d^3x + 8\int T^{ij}x_i x_j d^3x##
by using the identity: ##T^{\mu \nu}_{,\nu}=0##, for a bounded system (i.e. a system for which ##T^{\mu \nu}=0## outside a bounded region of space).
I'll write down my calculations, and I would like if someone can point me to my mistakes.

$$\partial_t \int T^{00}(x^i x_i)^2 d^3 x = -\int T^{0k}_{,k}(x^i x_i)^2 d^3 x = \Dcancelto[0]{-\int (T^{0k}(x_ix^i)^2)_{,k}d^3 x} +\int (T^{0k}(x_i x^i)^2_{,k})d^3 x$$

After that:
$$\partial_t \int T^{0k} [ 2x_k (x^k)^2+2(x_k)^2 x^k] d^3 x = \int T^{0k},0 [ 2x_k (x^k)^2+2(x_k)^2 x^k] d^3 x = $$
$$=-\int T^{kj}_{,j}[2x_k(x^k)^2+2(x_k)^2 x^k] =\[ \Dcancelto[0]{-\int (T^{kj}[ 2x_k(x^k)^2+2(x_k)^2x^k])_{,j}d^3 x}\] + \int T^{kj}[2\delta_{jk}(x^k)^2+4x_k x^k \delta^k_j + 2(x_k)^2\delta^k_j+4x_k \delta_{jk} x^k ] d^3 x$$

How to continue? assuming my above work is correct?

Thanks!
The \Dcancelto should be the arrow that goes to zero, I am not sure how to fix this here.
 
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MathematicalPhysicist said:
someone can point me to my mistakes.
$$\partial_t \int T^{00}(x^i x_i)^2 d^3 x = \int T^{0k} \left( (x_i x^i)^2 \right)_{,k}\ d^3 x$$
\left( ( x_{i}x^{i} )^{2} \right)_{,k} = 4 x_{k} \left( x_{j}x^{j} \right) .
 
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samalkhaiat said:
\left( ( x_{i}x^{i} )^{2} \right)_{,k} = 4 x_{k} \left( x_{j}x^{j} \right) .
Isn't this should be: ##(x_i x^i)^2_{,k} = (x_i x^i x_i x^i)_{,k}=2x_k (x^k)^2 + 2x^k (x_k)^2##?, where I used the fact that: ##\delta_{ik} = x_{i,k}##.
 
OK, I think I see my mistake (not really mine, it's the awful physicists' notation).
##(x_i x^i)^2 ## is actually ##(x_i x^i) (x_j x^j)##.
 
$$\begin{eqnarray*}
&&((x_ix^i)^2)_{,k}\\
&=&(x_ix^ix_jx^j)_{,k}\\
&=&(x_ix^i)_{,k}(x_jx^j)+(x_ix^i)(x_jx^j)_{,k}\\
&=&2x_k(x_jx^j)+(x_ix^i)2x_k\\
&=&4x_k(x_jx^j)\end{eqnarray*}$$
...and I typed all that out so I'm posting it even though I see you worked it out before I'd quite finished. In defence of the notation, I don't think ##(x_ix^i)^2## is at all ambiguous. Expanding it as ##(x_ix^ix_ix^i)## breaks the "no index more than twice" rule. And it's not at all clear to me what your ##x_k(x^k)^2## could mean, because you are using ##k## as both a dummy and a free subscript, which should hint to you that you've done something wrong.
 
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Ibix said:
$$\begin{eqnarray*}
&&((x_ix^i)^2)_{,k}\\
&=&(x_ix^ix_jx^j)_{,k}\\
&=&(x_ix^i)_{,k}(x_jx^j)+(x_ix^i)(x_jx^j)_{,k}\\
&=&2x_k(x_jx^j)+(x_ix^i)2x_k\\
&=&4x_k(x_jx^j)\end{eqnarray*}$$
...and I typed all that out so I'm posting it even though I see you worked it out before I'd quite finished. In defence of the notation, I don't think ##(x_ix^i)^2## is at all ambiguous. Expanding it as ##(x_ix^ix_ix^i)## breaks the "no index more than twice" rule. And it's not at all clear to me what your ##x_k(x^k)^2## could mean, because you are using ##k## as both a dummy and a free subscript, which should hint to you that you've done something wrong.
Yes, you are correct in saying that it's not ambiguous while remembering to use Einstein summation convention, my problem is that I was also been reading books in pure maths and they don't always use the Einstein summation convention, so it can be quite confusing going from one book to another.

Thanks anyway!
 

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