Differential Equations and Damper Curves

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equations of motion and energy storage in suspension components of a vehicle, specifically focusing on a quarter car model subjected to a step input. Participants explore the implications of non-constant damping coefficients in damped harmonic oscillators, particularly in the context of automotive engineering.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to derive equations of motion for a quarter car model with a non-constant damping coefficient, suggesting a functional relationship between damping and force/velocity.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about progressing analytically and suggests numerical methods as a potential next step.
  • A participant working in multi-body systems aims to develop a practical approach for tuning energy absorption in suspension components, expressing frustration with the limitations of numerical simulations.
  • Concerns are raised about the real-world applicability of existing literature on damping behavior, noting discrepancies between idealized models and actual performance in automotive dampers.
  • One participant mentions the complexity of damper behavior, highlighting factors like cavitation and engineered knee points that contribute to non-linear characteristics.
  • A reference to a publication is made, indicating that there may be analytical solutions available, though the participant is uncertain about how to proceed with them.
  • Another participant acknowledges the challenges of deriving analytical expressions for non-linear damping and suggests that numerical simulations remain a viable approach.
  • Discussion includes a mention of fluid friction and turbulence as potential causes for non-linear behavior in dampers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of analytical solutions versus numerical simulations for modeling non-linear damping in suspension systems. There is no consensus on the best approach to take or the validity of existing models.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of real-world damping behavior compared to idealized models, with specific mention of factors such as knee points and fluid dynamics that complicate the analysis. The discussion reflects uncertainty regarding the applicability of existing literature and the methods for deriving equations in this context.

aeb2335
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TL;DR
How to solve harmonic motion equations with non constant damping
Good evening,

I have been wrestling with the following and thought I would ask for help. I am trying to come up with the equations of motion and energy stored in individual suspension components when a wheel is fired towards the car but, there is a twist!

I am assuming a quarter car type model and a step input is applied to a simple damped harmonic oscillator which, is often presented in the following form: m*(d2x/dt)+c*(dx/dt)+k*x=0; however, after a lot of searching I have never seen this equation solved for when c is not constant i.e c(F(dx/dt)) .

The reason I ask about c being non constant is in automotive engineering the primary suspension damper often has a knee point (see attachment); I am reasonably comfortable with coming up with equations to describe c as a function of force and velocity but, I don't really know what the next step should be.

Now if this were just a spring and a mass the energy stored is fairly straight forward: Wspring=.5kx^2 and KE=1/2mv^2
I assume for the damper the energy could be expressed as Wdamper=integral(c(F,v)*v^2dt) but, I am not totally sure. I am even less sure if that is the correct direction I want to go.

For the whole of my education dampers have been linear so this would be really cool to get understand.
 

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Hi,
aeb2335 said:
I don't really know what the next step should be
Don't think you get much further analytically. My next step would be to go numerical.
aeb2335 said:
damper often has a knee point (see attachment)
Would that be real, or also an approximation ? How were these curves determined ?
 
Firstly, Thanks for your response!

As usual there is more context to this problem! I work in multi-body systems and I am trying to come up with a "rule of thumb" or sensible hand(ish) calc in order to tune the energy absorption of the various suspension components.

So unfortunately, I am trying to get away from numerical simulations as, effectively I already have the answer as it were. I find it extremely interesting that there is so much literature around this idealisation when in the real world the correlation is actually extremely poor; at least for automotive dampers.

As for damper behaviour unfortunately, they are significantly more complex than a linear relationship suggested by a constant "C" and the knee point is very real. Knee point(s) or indeed any changes in the damper curve can be caused by caviation or by a value that has been deliberately engineered into the damper.

I have seen programs and work similar to below that suggest this problem has been solved analytically but, I have no idea how!

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rsta.2014.0402#d3e639

This publication seems to be close to what I am on about but, I am not sure how to proceed; Any thoughts?
 
I'm afraid you are the expert here :smile: . Interesting world opening when I looked at your link and at ref 13 therein (Surace). But no sharp knees found.

Did find some support for my answer, though :wink:
Elliott al said:
(c) Numerical simulation for a single-degree-of-freedom system
In practice, for higher order forms of nonlinear damping, deriving an analytical expression for the response becomes more difficult, but direct time domain simulations can still be used to calculate the result

In my naive picture of dampers I thought the nonlinearity in fluid friction due to turbulence caused the deviation from linearity.​
 

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