Fall with Air Drag - Which Value for Velocity to Use?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on simulating a fall with air drag and the appropriate velocity value to use in calculations. The original method used for free fall resulted in slight errors, prompting a change to the equation for position. The user is uncertain whether to use the current velocity or the average of the current and next velocities when incorporating air drag. A contributor explains that the user is dealing with numerical solutions to differential equations and suggests sticking with the book's recommendation. The conversation highlights the complexities of numerical simulations in physics, particularly regarding the effects of different methods on results.
dracayr
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Homework Statement


I want to numerically simulate a fall with air drag. In class, we used these equations to produce a table simulating free fall (using a ti calculator):
Code:
dt=0.1s
a=9.81m/s²
t[SUB]n+1[/SUB]=t[SUB]n[/SUB]+dt
v[SUB]n+1[/SUB]=v[SUB]n[/SUB]+a*dt
x[SUB]n+1[/SUB]=x[SUB]n[/SUB]+v[SUB]n[/SUB]*dt

When I compared that system with the curve produced by the direct equation, x=1/2at², I noticed a slight error. After looking at the equations again, I figured that the error came from the fact that I used vn, so the curve would always be a bit lower than 1/2at². So I fixed that by changing the Equation to
Code:
x[SUB]n+1[/SUB]=x[SUB]n[/SUB]+((v[SUB]n+1[/SUB]+v[SUB]n[/SUB])/2)*dt

Now I want to create a similar system but with air drag. As before, my physics book says that I should use vn and not (vn+vn+1)/2. But the book was wrong when it came to free fall, so I don't know which value to use for v. I think I should use (vn+vn+1)/2. But since I don't know the direct equation this time (if there is one), I can't compare to the correct solution..

2a. Relevant equations
v=x/t
a=v/t
F=ma

Fd=b|v|m
vE=(mg/b)1/m
a=g(1-vm/vEm)

Fd is the air drag
b and m are constants depending on the drag (I think in the case of air, m is about 2)
vE is the end velocity the falling body will achieve


The Attempt at a Solution



These are the spreadsheets with the 2 systems:

http://dracayr.awardspace.com/physik.ods"
http://dracayr.awardspace.com/physik.xls"


dracayr
 
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Ah, you've unknowingly ran into problems solving differential equations numerically. Essentially, what you're doing is time-marching an ordinary differential equation. You're comparing results using upwind and central differencing. For what you're doing, just do as the book says.

Numerically, upwinding (essentially using the value of the velocity at the current time) will damp waves, so you will typically have a lower magnitude than the analytic solution.
 
OK, thanks for the information :)

dracayr
 
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