Find di(0+)/dt and dv(0+)/dt of circuit containing resistor, inductor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the derivatives di(0+)/dt and dv(0+)/dt in a circuit containing a resistor, inductor, and capacitor after a switch is closed. Participants explore the behavior of the circuit immediately after the switch operation, focusing on the application of relevant formulas and the characteristics of second-order systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the circuit behavior before and after the switch is closed, noting the roles of the inductor and capacitor in steady-state DC.
  • Another participant suggests that the circuit represents a second-order system and questions the need for the second derivative of current.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the first derivative can be determined without calculating the second derivative, referencing the style of the textbook used.
  • Another participant provides a formula relating voltage and current derivatives, suggesting that the inductor experiences a voltage difference that can be used to find di(0+)/dt.
  • There is a mention that the inductor counteracts changes in voltage drop, leading to a proposed value of zero for one of the derivatives.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of calculating the second derivative and the implications of the inductor's behavior. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to find the required derivatives.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem is situated within a second-order system context, but there is uncertainty about the relevance of the second derivative for solving the problem at hand. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of the circuit's behavior immediately after the switch is closed.

Xhendos
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Homework Statement
Find di(0+)/dt and dv(0+)/dt of circuit containing resistor, inductor and capacitor
Relevant Equations
I = C dv/dt
V = L di/dt
Dear PF,

I am trying to solve practice problem 8.1 and I am stuck on part b which asks us to find di(0+)/dt and dv(0+)/dt.
2021-01-22-160234_1111x442_scrot.png


Down below in the picture is my attempt. Before t=0 it is quite intuitive since the inductor acts as short circuit to steady-state DC and a capacitor acts as open circuit to steady-state DC. However, after the switch is closed the circuit got the inductor and a capacitor in series with a 2 ohm resistor. It is very likely that the formules I = C dv/dt and V = L di/dt have to be used but I don't quite know how since the 3.5A current from the inductor wil be spread, a part will go through the 2 ohm resistor and a part will go through the capacitor and I am not quite sure how to analyse this.

Could anyone point me in the right direction to find dv(0+)/dt and di(0+)/dt when the switch just opens?WhatsApp Image 2021-01-22 at 16.04.14.jpeg

[Mentor Note -- Adding improved contrast version of the diagram]

Dark01.jpeg
 
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You have a second order system on your hands. What do you get for ##d^2i\over dt^2## ?
Note: pay attention to the signs !
 
BvU said:
You have a second order system on your hands. What do you get for ##d^2i\over dt^2## ?
Note: pay attention to the signs !
To be honest, I do not know. Second order circuits will be covered in the next few chapters. Practice problem 8.1 is asked right after Example 8.1, and in Example 8.1 there is also a second-order circuit but the question only asked for the first derivative right after at t=0+.
The style of this book is that the practice problem is being solved similar to the example problem, so I guess we do not need to know the second derivative of i as of now since there must be a way to solve this question without calculating the second derivative.

2021-01-22-191928_536x705_scrot.png
 
Xhendos said:
we do not need to know the second derivative of i as of now since there must be a way to solve this question without calculating the second derivative
Fair enough. Although it's not very complicated: $$ V = L {di\over dt} \ \ i = C {dV\over dt} \ \ \Rightarrow i = LC\, {d^2i \over dt^2} $$-- but I grant you that it may not be very useful here.

More useful ##-## and in the spirit of the exercise and example ##-## is that for ##t=0## the inductor suddenly sees a voltage difference of 35 V, which should be equal to ##L {di\over dt} ## so the given answer follows immediately.

Similarly, the inductor counteracts any change in the voltage drop over it (fo a very short tine), so answer d) is 0.
 
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