Is Solar Activity Decreasing and Causing Colder Winters in Britain?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the potential relationship between decreasing solar activity and colder winters in Britain. Participants explore various aspects of solar activity, historical measurements, and the implications for climate patterns, particularly in the context of recent weather trends.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a claim that solar activity is expected to decline in the coming decades, potentially leading to colder winters in Britain.
  • Questions arise regarding how solar activity was measured historically, with mentions of tree ring analysis and sunspot counts.
  • There are reports suggesting a small probability of a Maunder Minimum occurring this century, which might only result in a minor temperature reduction compared to human-induced climate change.
  • Concerns are raised about the reliability of correlating sunspot activity with regional temperature changes in the UK.
  • Some participants argue that phenomena like El Niño and La Niña may have a more significant impact on UK winters than solar activity.
  • One participant cites a Met Office study indicating that while reduced solar output could lead to colder winters, it would not halt global climate change.
  • There is a discussion about the role of the jet stream in influencing weather patterns, including the movement of cold air from polar regions.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the existence of a long-term solar minimum currently affecting climate.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the relationship between solar activity and colder winters in Britain. Multiple competing views are presented, with some arguing for a connection and others questioning its significance.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the data correlating solar activity with local temperature changes, as well as the complexity of climate systems that may involve multiple interacting factors.

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How did they measure or identify solar activity three hundred years ago?
 
Think they do that by looking at certain radioactive elements in tree rings.
 
There have been several reports that solar output is falling dating back to at least 2013. As I recall they say there is a small probability we could have a Maunder Minimum this century but it would only cause 0.1C reduction in global temperatures and man made global warming is predicted to be greater than that.
 
gleem said:
How did they measure or identify solar activity three hundred years ago?

Counting sunspots! I forgot about telescopes and the propensity of documenting everything. Although I doubt the meaning was appreciated. Today we have proxies for sunspot activity in Be7 concentration in the atmosphere and Be10 concentration in ice as well as C14. These isotopes produced by the reaction of solar radiation with O and N.
 
CWatters said:
There have been several reports that solar output is falling dating back to at least 2013. As I recall they say there is a small probability we could have a Maunder Minimum this century but it would only cause 0.1C reduction in global temperatures and man made global warming is predicted to be greater than that.

The Met Office-led study warns although the effect will be offset by recent global warming, Britain faces years of unusually cold winters.

I can not make my mind up, although I have read several articles that say Britain will be colder in the future.
 
With so little data of the correlation of sun spot activity and local regional temperature how sure can we be the the UK will indeed become noticeably colder.
 
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As I understand it El nino and la Nina have a greater impact on UK winters although I guess these might be linked to sun spot activity?

Edit: Google can find several papers showing a correlation with sun spot cycles but it doesn't seem to be a simple/direct correlation.
 
  • #10
Okay: https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/news/releases/2015/solar-activity
This states that the met office (Britain's version of NOAA) indicated that researchers the published a paper in Nature Communications. To simplify - it was a 'what if?' kind of paper. They showed that IF we had a long weather incident caused by reduced solar output, it would not stop global climate change. We DO NOT have solar output diminution going on now as was the case during the Maunder Minimum of the Little Ice Age.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

I'm guessing Wolram wants to know if what we see is that solar "dimming" causing the incredible cold weather in Europe and the US.

What is causing it, according the wunderground web site, is that when the jet stream weakens it wanders both North and South. The southern intrusions cause cold air that is normally near the pole to move South into the Eastern US and Western Europe. It also allows warmer air from the south to move into polar regions causing extremely warm temperature, like last winter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_stream - see Rossby waves or meanders.

There is NO long term solar minimum going on.

Dendrochronology - tree rings - is a good source for past climate patterns, as are palynological studies of lake varves, and ice cores. Ice cores provide samples of atmospheric CO2 levels and pollen, tree ring data for the SW US is actually pretty complete for last several thousand years years. See this researcher at NAU describe using both: https://nau.edu/cefns/natsci/seses/faculty/routson/

And prediction of future 'Maunder Minimum' long period changes are not possible.
 
Last edited:
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  • #11
I think we should consider the subject closed, since the initial question was due to weak newspaper interpretation of a research statement.
 
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