Liquid Slosh and Vehicle Stability

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the challenges of liquid slosh in partially filled containers and its implications for vehicle stability, particularly in the context of an invention aimed at eliminating slosh. Participants explore the potential market for such an invention and share insights from related research in aerospace applications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes an invention to eliminate liquid slosh and control the center of gravity, questioning the market need for such a device.
  • Another participant references research conducted by a physics department in collaboration with NASA on propellant slosh in spacecraft, highlighting the complexities of slosh behavior in microgravity.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the novelty of the invention in the context of existing slosh issues in rocketry, noting that slosh has been a longstanding problem in aerospace engineering.
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of the invention to rocketry due to the unique conditions experienced during launch, including high g-forces and extreme vibrations.
  • One participant mentions the possibility of prior art in the field of rocketry, suggesting that the patent search may not have uncovered existing solutions due to legal restrictions on patentability in this area.
  • Another participant counters that they have not found any similar inventions after extensive searching, expressing optimism about the novelty of their concept despite the risks of prior art.
  • A reference is made to a granted patent for a slosh dampening utility in launch rockets by Lockheed Martin, indicating that similar ideas may exist in the industry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the novelty and applicability of the proposed invention. While some express skepticism about its relevance to rocketry, others maintain that it could be applicable and emphasize the lack of prior art found during their research.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexities of slosh behavior in different environments, particularly in aerospace applications, and the potential legal implications surrounding patentability in this field. There are unresolved questions about the specific conditions under which the proposed invention may be effective.

erickxxx
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Hi,
I'm working on an invention that eliminates liquid slosh in partially filled liquid containers and allows for center of gravity control. I'm wondering if there is a market for such an apparatus where elimination of all slosh is needed.

I am aware of baffles, sponges, and diaphragms. A professional patent search was done and it seems that i may have something new.

I would appreciate your contributions :)
 
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Slosh research isn't terribly novel. I can't speak for reduction, but I do have something you could look into to investigate further. A team from the physics department of my alma mater did some research a few years ago with NASA characterizing propellent slosh in Orion service module propellent tanks.

http://www.carthage.edu/physics/opportunities/space-sciences/2010/index.php

“We built a scale model of one of these service module tanks to assess its behavior under microgravity when it’s at various levels of propellant. The fuel in microgravity sloshes around in strange ways that can be destabilizing to the spacecraft . We’ve lost spacecraft due to propellant slosh.”

Here's a thesis written on it last year that should have significantly more information. I haven't read through it, but it may make reference to slosh reduction techniques.

http://dspace.carthage.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/123456789/301/Bakkum_thesis_final.pdf?sequence=1
 
Last edited by a moderator:
aroc91 said:
Slosh research isn't terribly novel. I can't speak for reduction, but I do have something you could look into to investigate further. A team from the physics department of my alma mater did some research a few years ago with NASA characterizing propellent slosh in Orion service module propellent tanks.

http://www.carthage.edu/physics/opportunities/space-sciences/2010/index.php



Here's a thesis written on it last year that should have significantly more information. I haven't read through it, but it may make reference to slosh reduction techniques.

http://dspace.carthage.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/123456789/301/Bakkum_thesis_final.pdf?sequence=1

Thank you. That was really helpful :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
erickxxx, if you didn't already know about slosh in rockets, I suspect your invention may not be applicable to that field. Spacecraft slosh has been plaguing rocket and spacecraft manufacturers from the earliest days of launching things into space. It's a rather different world than the typical slosh problem. Launch is a high g event with extreme vibration and some rather noxious or extremely cold chemicals. After launch, when the vehicle stops thrusting, the remaining liquid turns into an other worldly foam that comes crashing down when thrust is applied.

If your invention does have direct applicability to rocketry, someone may well have already come up with that very idea and your patent lawyer would not have found it. A lot of ideas in the realm of rocketry is not patentable thanks to U.S. Code 35 § 181, "Secrecy of certain inventions and withholding of patent."
 
D H said:
erickxxx, if you didn't already know about slosh in rockets, I suspect your invention may not be applicable to that field. Spacecraft slosh has been plaguing rocket and spacecraft manufacturers from the earliest days of launching things into space. It's a rather different world than the typical slosh problem. Launch is a high g event with extreme vibration and some rather noxious or extremely cold chemicals. After launch, when the vehicle stops thrusting, the remaining liquid turns into an other worldly foam that comes crashing down when thrust is applied.

If your invention does have direct applicability to rocketry, someone may well have already come up with that very idea and your patent lawyer would not have found it. A lot of ideas in the realm of rocketry is not patentable thanks to U.S. Code 35 § 181, "Secrecy of certain inventions and withholding of patent."

It can definitely be applied to rocketry. The risk of prior art is always present, I have found patents or publications about my previous ideas, but for this concept I've been actively searching for 6 months and haven't found anything like it, so I'm optimistic about its novelty.

Interesting that you mentioned the U.S. Code 35 § 181, because a slosh dampening utility patent for launch rockets has been granted to Lockheed Martin:
http://www.google.com/patents/US6283412
 

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