Mere approximation problem or something else? Thermodynamics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the work done during the decomposition of 1.0 mole of N2H4 at a pressure of 1.0 atm and a temperature of 300 K. Participants explore the implications of using standard temperature and pressure (STP) values and the state of N2H4 in the reaction.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the work done based on the assumption of 100% dissociation of N2H4, leading to a total of 2 moles of gas and a calculated work of -4480 J, questioning the discrepancy with the provided answer of -4988.4 J.
  • Another participant points out that STP is defined at 273 K, not 300 K, suggesting this could affect the calculations.
  • A participant argues that if the initial number of moles is 1 and the final number is 2, the change in volume at 273 K should be 22.4 liters, indicating that the calculated work might be too high.
  • Several participants note that N2H4 is a liquid at the initial conditions, which could influence the calculations and assumptions made regarding gas volumes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the calculations and assumptions regarding the state of N2H4 and the implications of using STP values. There is no consensus on the correct approach or answer.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of temperature in calculations and the state of substances involved, indicating that assumptions about gas behavior may not hold true for liquids.

mooncrater
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Homework Statement


The question is :
Calculate the work done in joules when 1.0 mole of N2H4 decomposed against a pressure of 1.0 atm at 300 K for the equation:
3N2H4
(l)→4NH3(g)+2N2(g)

Homework Equations


None

The Attempt at a Solution


I did it like as:
Assuming 100% dissociation of N2H4
4/3 moles of NH3 and 2/3 moles of N2
will be formed. That means a total of 2 moles of gas will be formed , which will have a volume of 2×22.4L at STP.
(SINCE AT STP VOLUME OF 1 MOLE OF GAS=22.4L)
Which will be equal to 44.8 ×10-3 m3
So work done =PΔV=105×44.8×10-3=4480J (with a negative sign)
But its answer is -4988.4 J which is much different from mine. What I think is that mere approximations in the values of Molar volume at STP and pressure change from atm to N/m2 cannot cause such a large deviation. So is my method incorrect? Or the given answer?
 
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mooncrater said:

Homework Statement


The question is :
Calculate the work done in joules when 1.0 mole of N2H4 decomposed against a pressure of 1.0 atm at 300 K for the equation:
3N2H4
(l)→4NH3(g)+2N2(g)

Homework Equations


None

The Attempt at a Solution


I did it like as:
Assuming 100% dissociation of N2H4
4/3 moles of NH3 and 2/3 moles of N2
will be formed. That means a total of 2 moles of gas will be formed , which will have a volume of 2×22.4L at STP.
(SINCE AT STP VOLUME OF 1 MOLE OF GAS=22.4L)
Which will be equal to 44.8 ×10-3 m3
So work done =PΔV=105×44.8×10-3=4480J (with a negative sign)
But its answer is -4988.4 J which is much different from mine. What I think is that mere approximations in the values of Molar volume at STP and pressure change from atm to N/m2 cannot cause such a large deviation. So is my method incorrect? Or the given answer?

What temperature is "STP" -- how does that compare with the 300 K of the original problem?
 
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Okay...that was a silly mistake...STP is for 273K not 300K . Now I will never forget it. Thank you!
 
It seems to me there is something wrong here. If the initial number of moles were 1, and the final number of moles were 2, then at 273K, the change in volume would have been 22.4 liters, not 44.8 liters. So it seems to me that the "correct answer" is a factor of 2 too high. What do you guys think?

Chet
 
But ##N_2H_4## is a liquid at initial conditions.
 
mooncrater said:
But ##N_2H_4## is a liquid at initial conditions.
Ah. Thanks. That explains it. Duh!

Chet
 
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Chestermiller said:
Ah. Thanks. That explains it. Duh!

Chet
Sir I think you knew it but asked the question to check mooncrater.:wink:
 
Raghav Gupta said:
Sir I think you knew it but asked the question to check mooncrater.:wink:
You're very kind, but, no, I didn't notice that (l) in the problem statement. And I definitely didn't know from prior experience that N2H4 is a liquid at ordinary conditions. o:)

Chet
 
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