Standard change in entropy and change in entropy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between standard change in entropy and change in entropy, particularly in the context of the Gibbs free energy equation. Participants explore definitions, conditions, and implications of these concepts in thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the standard change in entropy can be expressed as dS(standard) = q(sys)/T(sys), relating it to the Gibbs free energy equation.
  • Another participant counters this by stating that in spontaneous adiabatic reactions, the change in entropy can be positive while the heat exchange q is zero, implying a distinction between standard and actual changes in entropy.
  • A question is raised about the difference between change in entropy and standard change in entropy, with a focus on reaction conditions.
  • It is clarified that the standard change in entropy refers to conditions where all reactants are in their standard states, such as specific concentrations and pressures.
  • Further elaboration indicates that to determine the standard change in entropy, one must consider a reversible process and that the standard change is equal to the integral of dQ/T for that process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between standard change in entropy and actual change in entropy, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the definitions of standard states and the conditions under which entropy changes occur are crucial to understanding the concepts discussed. There is an emphasis on the need for reversible processes in calculating standard changes in entropy.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and professionals in thermodynamics, chemistry, and related fields who are exploring the concepts of entropy and Gibbs free energy.

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In the Gibbs free energy equation, does the standard change in entropy equal q(sys)/T(system)?

Or in math terms:
T(surr) * q(sys)/T(sys) = T(surr) * dS(standard)
Thus
dS(standard) = q(sys)/T(sys)

(surr) = surroundings
(sys) = systems
(standard) = at standard conditions
 
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Not usually. E.g. in any spontaneous adiabatic chemical reaction ##\Delta S>0## but q=0.
 
The standard change refers to the change of entropy when all reactants are in their standard state (i.e. e.g. activity=1 mol/L, p=1000 hPa, etc).
 
To elaborate on what Dr. Du said, you start out with the pure reactants in the reference state, and you end up with the pure products in the reference state. To get the standard change in entropy, you would need to identify a reversible process for bringing about this change. For that process, the standard change in entropy is equal to the integral of dQ/T. The reversible process you identify might involve gas expansions, gas compressions, a reactor with the components in equilibrium, and semipermeable membranes to introduce and remove reactants and products from the reactor reversibly. Fortunately for you, you do not meed to make these measurements yourself. The standard free energies of the reactants and products have been tabulated for you.

Chet
 

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