Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

The Grand Deception: 'Kerry, War Hero,' Is a Myth

  1. Sep 19, 2004 #1

    kat

    User Avatar

    The Grand Deception: 'Kerry, War Hero,' Is a Myth

    Just a few "Snippets", you should read the whole thing before commenting on it.

     
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 19, 2004 #2

    graphic7

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    I read yesterday that a Navy board ruled that Kerry legitimately received his medals.

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/18/kerry.medals.ap/index.html

    For some reason, this seems more credible. Maybe it's the CNN in it that strikes me.

    This might not prove Kerry is a war hero, and I agree. But the whole "Kerry's family knew JFK - that's how he got his medals," is a bunch of crap now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2004
  4. Sep 19, 2004 #3

    kat

    User Avatar


    Well yes, this is how mistruths get spread..by equating a statement in the article of "approval process was properly followed," to equalling "legitimately recieved"
    Other then that you're gonna have to dig out the quote from the article that says "Kerry's family knew JFK - that's how he got his medals,"
    So, thanks for your non-response which basicly only amounts to more mis-direction (lies?). :grumpy:
     
  5. Sep 19, 2004 #4

    graphic7

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    I find it amusing how the republicans were overly anal when the Bush war record documents surfaced, even to the fact of discrediting CBS (now you're saying CNN and the naval official aren't credible). What's more amusing is the republicans are pulling the exact same act on Kerry.

    As far as I know, an approval process observes serveral things. One of those (I would hope) would be making sure that Kerry deserved the medals.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2004
  6. Sep 19, 2004 #5
    God, people are still on this nonsense?

    As far as I know, not even these Swiftboat Liars have raised questions about Kerry's 2 other Purple Hearts and Silver Star, but that's not important, there are 2 undisputed Purple Hearts and a Sliver Star, and the guy's suddenly a pussy who didn't do crap in Vietnam.

    Thurlow, the guy who said Kerry wasn't under fire when he rescued Rassman, got a freakin' Bronze star rewarded for brave actions which "took place under constant enemy small arms fire." during the SAME INCIDENT!

    The after-action report from that incident also showed 3 bullet holes in one of the boats Kerry was with, where did those come from? Did Kerry just shoot the holes himself to make it look like he really was being heroic?

    Just go to www.factcheck.org, it was all debunked a good month or so ago.
     
  7. Sep 19, 2004 #6

    kat

    User Avatar

    I don't find discrediting forged documents to be "anal". I do however, find calling it anal to be just a bit.... disingenious.

    Lol, I have no problem saying that CNN lacks credibility. What amazes me is that you have a problem with questioning it's credibility! :surprised Of course you're going to have to quote me where I've said that the Naval Official is not credible. Perhaps you can do that while actually replying to my last post instead of avoiding it!

    Well, good...why don't you back that up with facts...links...official statements.

    :rolleyes:
     
  8. Sep 19, 2004 #7

    plover

    User Avatar
    Homework Helper

    I fail to understand why kat, who rejects on principle references to the New York Times as unacceptably biased, expects anyone to take an opinion column which backs itself up with a book from Regnery Publishing as evidence of anything.
     
  9. Sep 19, 2004 #8
    CNN may be biased bull****. But it doesn't lie.
     
  10. Sep 19, 2004 #9

    kat

    User Avatar

    Well, actually there are problems with the other medals but lets hash out the first one before we go off into a tangent on his other medals.

    None of the claims of the SBVFT have been proven false. Here's the statement from Swift Boat Member For Truth Larry Thurlow I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry's report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river.

    To this day, I can say without a doubt in my mind, along with other accounts from my shipmates -- there was no hostile enemy fire directed at my boat or at any of the five boats operating on the river that day.

    I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after action report describing the incident. To my knowledge, John Kerry was the only officer who filed a report describing his version of the incidents that occurred on the river that day.

    It was not until I had left the Navy -- approximately three months after I left the service -- that I was notified that I was to receive a citation for my actions on that day.
    On Kerry's side there have been conflicting accounts of this story, including a direct contradiction to Kerry's "no man left behind speach" at the convention and Rassmans account in the Oregonian newspaper.



    I think you're confusing (as some of the media did) two different incidents. I think the relevent information can be found in the COMNAVFORV files but why don't you link the after action report or at least quote it so that we can see what you're talking about for certain.

    It was never "debunked" and what factcheck basicly used to refute them are quotes from Kerry's supporters and his biographer. I'll be glad to argue anything you offer on a point by point bases...as in one item at a time so as not to end up with a jumbled and confusing mess.
     
  11. Sep 19, 2004 #10

    kat

    User Avatar

    Don't ...Do not..derail my thread. I did not offer the Opinion Column of Rear Admiral, the "overall commander of U.S. Swift Boats during the period of Kerry's Vietnam coastal service" as evidence of anything. I offered his opinion as a starting point for a thread open for discussion on the subject matter in his column.
    If you have something pertinant to HIS column, please feel free to comment. Otherwise start YOUR OWN thread!!! :mad:
     
  12. Sep 19, 2004 #11
    God, this had all been so thuroughly debunked so long ago, I thought no one would even think of bringing it up again and deleted all this stuff from my mind. If I have time I'll try to dig up the reality of the events, but do you really want to keep going over crap that happened such a long time ago? Couldn't you at least attack something about Kerry that will actually matter, like his proposed economic policies or something? I'd much rather argue about the present and the future than the past.
     
  13. Sep 19, 2004 #12

    Integral

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    I am speaking as a Vietnam era veteran.

    There were 2 kinds of Heroes it that era. Hero Type 1 was the men who enlisted or were drafted into the military. These men unflinchingly did the job they were asked to do. It was not their fault the war was lost. Kerry is a type 1 hero. According to the current theme you need not distinguish yourself in battle to be a hero, it is only necessary to serve. Kerry did that, why do we even need to mention medals?

    Type 2 Hero was the long hairs and college students that took to the streets and protested until this ill conceived war was stopped. In some ways Type 2 Heroes were the true American Patriots engaging in the American tradition of civil disobedience and suffering the consequences.

    Kerry also qualifies as a Type 2 hero.

    Therefore Kerry is a Vietnam era Hero2

    Where was our ignoramus president during this era? Skipping out on his minimal stateside duties and rallying around a bottle to hide from the issues of the day. Ain't he grand!
     
  14. Sep 19, 2004 #13
    B...b...but... How could they be heros? They had long hair, and listened to The Greatful Dead, and they said that the govt. was doing something bad and they fought against the war and.. and... hippies...jane fonda... hairy freaks... oh god, you're making my brain hurt.

    Why do you hate America?
     
  15. Sep 19, 2004 #14

    kat

    User Avatar

    Oh no, it's never been "thuroughly debunked". It's been pushed aside with comments that never address the facts, just as you're doing here. SO, yeah I very much would like to discuss this subject. I have a bit of a passion for it, particularly since my father served in the same place during the same period of time...right up the river at danang....
     
  16. Sep 19, 2004 #15
    Whateva tickles yo' fancy hon. I'll get on that if I've got some free time.
     
  17. Sep 19, 2004 #16

    kat

    User Avatar

    Quite frankly, where Kerry is concerned I think this is a load of crap. I think he used your "type 2 hero's" as well as manipulated the system and denigrated your type 1 hero's in doing so. BUT please dont' derail my thread. I'd be glad to talk about Kerry's actions upon arriving stateside on a different thread. This thread isn't about BUSH, so don't go there in this thread. THANK YOU.
     
  18. Sep 19, 2004 #17

    selfAdjoint

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Gold Member
    Dearly Missed

    The Navy just responded to the FOI request for Kerry's medal documents. Did he deserve them? The papers reveal that he DID! And all that swift boat stuff, with the vets carefully coached in what to say, and all of them with a personal interest in bringing down the Democrat's candidate, has turned out to be flushable stuff.
     
  19. Sep 19, 2004 #18

    kat

    User Avatar

    Mmmm, why don't you give some supporting evidence..links...quotes..jest a li'l sumthin sumthing to support yourself and allow some debate. :rolleyes:
     
  20. Sep 19, 2004 #19

    graphic7

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    I fail to see why we have to support ourselves with quotes and further documenation. The Navy had a hearing, and they ruled that Kerry went through the correct approval process. That's all there is to it.
     
  21. Sep 19, 2004 #20
    only those who realy love america
    are willing to fight for the values that the founding fathers loved
    freedom is not blindly following the "LEADER"
    justice is not whatever the "LEADER" says it is
    the one who do blindly follow leaders are the ones who
    hate the real freedoms america stands for
    it is not my country right or wrong
    it is not love it or leave it
    it is the heros who fight the powers that lead us astray

    btw the Greatful Dead and the deadheads are closer to being true americans
    in the spirit of the founding fathers
    then the NEO-CONed ditto-heads ever will be
    rush and the ditto heads hate the freedoms that america stands for


    kat tipical neo-con try at censorship as it is all about BuSh2 vs Kerry
    and what they did during and after the war
    bush2 hid and then went AWOL
    Kerry did go and cameback and fought againts an evil war
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?



Similar Discussions: The Grand Deception: 'Kerry, War Hero,' Is a Myth
  1. I are hero! (Replies: 44)

  2. Kerry won? (Replies: 43)

  3. Is McCain a war Hero? (Replies: 343)

  4. CEO Heroes (Replies: 7)

Loading...