Thermodynamics, Heat transfer question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamics problem involving heat transfer, internal energy, and the behavior of an ideal gas during isobaric and adiabatic processes. Participants seek to clarify the steps needed to calculate the final temperature, work transfer, and change in internal energy for the given scenario.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how to start the problem, specifically regarding the final temperature and volume.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the expression "law pv power of 12 = a constant," confirming it refers to PV^1.2 = constant.
  • It is noted that the first process is isobaric, allowing the use of the equation ΔU = Q - W, with Q given and W calculated as an integral of P dV.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the ideal gas law and the need to derive relationships between temperature and volume during the adiabatic process.
  • One participant points out a potential typo in the gamma coefficient, suggesting that a value of 12 is unrealistic and explaining the theoretical limits of gamma based on the equipartition theorem.
  • A participant outlines a method for calculating the final temperature and internal energy change but expresses ongoing uncertainty about the values of v2 and t2.
  • Another participant confirms the typo regarding the exponent in the equation, clarifying it should be 1.2 instead of 12.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to clarify the problem's parameters and the equations involved, but there remains uncertainty regarding the final temperature and volume values, indicating that the discussion is unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding missing assumptions about the gas behavior and the specific values for final temperature and volume, which are not clearly defined by participants.

Mathy
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I have done a series of thermodynamics questions covering heat transfer, internal energy, temperature pressure etc. I have a new one but I am unsure how to start it, its unlclear whether i know certain things. I can do the question form looking back at pervious questions, if i knew how to start.

0.36m cubed of air at a pressure of 1.1MN/m2 and 339k is given an energy of 3.4MJ by means of heating at a constant pressure. The air is then allowed to expand to a volume of 1.44m3 according to the law pv power of 12= a constant.

For each process calculate the final temperature, the work tarnsfer and the change in internal energy.

I am assuming the question is two parts, and therefore i don't know
temperature two/final temp or volume 2. that's why I am unsure how to get the final volume

how would i find the final temperature in order to carry out the rest of the question?

any help whould be great!
 
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Could you clarify on the "law pv power of 12 = a constant" part? Does this mean you have

PV^1^2 = constant
 
Yes indeed

mezarashi said:
Could you clarify on the "law pv power of 12 = a constant" part? Does this mean you have

PV^1^2 = constant



Yes that's it. but i also made a mistake with my phrasing, i want to know the final temperature, not the final volume. The question asks for the final temperature. I am not sure because i don't know temp final but i also don't seem to know v2 either.
 
I'd just like to note that I've never seen such a high gamma coefficient before :P
Assume the ideal gas law holds at all times.
For the first process, which is isobaric, we can write (as we always can):

\Delta U = Q - W

Q is given, and W = \int P dV
where P is constant making it quite easy. The following calorimetric equation also holds at constant pressure Q = nC_p \Delta T

Using the ideal gas law, you can then find all the other parameters.

Implicitly stated in the second process is that it is adiabatic, so that:

PV^\gamma = constant

Combining with the ideal gas law, you can derive:

T_1V_1^{\gamma-1} = T_2V_2^{\gamma-1}

From the previous step you should have the initial temperature and volume. The final volume is given.
 
Thanks should help

Yes those all seem familiar, i have used them in questions but i am still not familiar with the thermodynamics physics enough to tackle any question straight off. i know enough once i get started, so thanks i think that will be fine. I let you know how i get on
 
I'm almost certain that "12" is a typo for "1.2"

\gamma=12 is theoretically impossible.

\gamma = C_p/C_v = 1 + \frac{R}{C_v}

But the equipartition theorem tells us that C_v = nR/2, where n is an integer denoting the number of degrees of freedom that contribute to the internal energy. So, R/C_v = 2/n and can be at most 2, so \gamma can be no larger than 3.
 
I now know that for the first part i need to get final temperature then put it into u=mCVdt dt=(t2-t1) cv=0.718 then Q=U+W I think w is simply the energy stated at the start 3.4 MJ = 3400KJ so Q=U+3400KJ then i find change in internal energy with:
can anynone tell me whether this is right. I am still unsure how to get the final temperature for process one too. I am struggling as it seems i don't know v2 for process one or t2, are either of them just the same as the v1 or v2?
 
ps yes its right there was a typo its was pv 1.2 not 12
 

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