Using the angular momentum principle for 2 pucks

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves two pucks on ice connected by a string, where one puck moves without rotating and the other moves and rotates when a force is applied. The discussion focuses on the relationship between the distances traveled by the centers of the pucks and the angular momentum principle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the reasoning behind why the centers of both pucks travel the same distance, considering the effects of the applied force on their motion. There is also discussion about calculating the ratio of distances moved by the two pucks, with references to angular displacement and kinetic energy.

Discussion Status

Some participants are questioning the interpretation of the distances involved in the calculations, particularly regarding the meaning of angular displacement in the context of the problem. There is an ongoing exploration of the relationships between the movements of the pucks and the forces applied.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem is not a rolling without slipping scenario, which raises questions about the relationship between angular speed and center of mass speed. There is also uncertainty regarding the calculations and assumptions made in the attempts to solve the problem.

shepherd882
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Homework Statement


Two pucks are lying on ice where they can slide and rotate with almost no friction. A string is tied to both pucks but it is tied to the middle of the first puck and wrapped around the second puck. You pull on both strings with the same force, F. The first puck moves without rotating while the second puck moves and rotates.
media%2F842%2F8428100b-d401-4c50-a9f5-ad1d4c933fff%2FphphHWdvo.png


a) The centres of both pucks will travel the same distance. Explain clearly why that is so.
b) Calculate the ratio of the total distance L that the end of the string attached to the second puck moved to the total distance d that the end of the string attached to the first puck moved. Beware that this is NOT a rolling without slipping problem and the relationship between angular speed and centre of mass speed may be different than in that case. There are at least two methods of solving this problem but they both require using the angular momentum principle. One method calculates the two types of kinetic energy and another method calculates the angle through which the second puck rotates.

Homework Equations


F=ma
Torque = I*w
I=0.5MR^2
Angular displacement = 0.5*a*t^2

The Attempt at a Solution


a) treat each puck as point-particle system. the external force (F) acting on the centre of mass for both pucks are the same. The centre of mass has a = F/m therefore distance traveled by both pucks is:
d=1/2*a*t^2
d= 1/2*F/M*t^2
b) for puck 2:
46502154_195563131368204_8563079905254834176_n.png?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr3-1.png

Divide angular displacement/distance:
R*angular displacement = 2D
(L=R*angular displacement)
Therefore, L=2D

not sure if this is right and for puck 1, how do you do it for slipping?

thanks for your help
 

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shepherd882 said:
R*angular displacement
In terms of the set-up, what distance does this calculation represent?
 
haruspex said:
In terms of the set-up, what distance does this calculation represent?

the distance that the string is pulled on puck 2?
 
shepherd882 said:
the distance that the string is pulled on puck 2?
It depends what you mean by that. It is not the distance that the pulled end travels in the lab frame.
 

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