What happened at Heathrow airport on Star Wars Day?

[DennisN]

WARNING! This thread contains spoilers for Star Wars: The Last Jedi. If you have not yet seen the movie, we strongly encourage you to turn around and return once you have.

Please use this thread for discussions about The Last Jedi, including spoilers.
I have not seen the movie yet, so I have nothing more to say at the moment.

 

[scottdave]

I just finished watching it. For now I'll just say that there were a few thinga that I didn't see coming. Thumbs up.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Saw it last night and really liked it. I enjoyed how many of the plans of the main characters failed, and they had to learn from them and adapt. Also the cruiser hyperjumping through the mega-Star destroyer and cutting it in half was one of the best shots I’ve seen in cinema in ages.

 

[GTOM]

I don't know whether i should go to a cinema to watch it, after what the majority of people wrote about part VII.
I expected that Rey is the daughter of Luke, no she isnt, that means there isn't any explanation for her abilities in VII, Luke was the son of Vader and he still needed lots of learning, not just start as Mary/Gary S(t)ue. Although i think i ll skip VII anyway.

I read a good review, and another one, which said ok, characters are great, but... he didnt expect hardness from SW, but according to him, space battles became a parody with foolish imperials, also the last third of the film became rather chaotic.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

You don’t have to be a child of a Jedi to become a Jedi. Rey isn’t Luke’s daughter but she doesn’t need to be to be a force user. If you like Star Wars it’s definitely worth seeing in the cinema.

 

[scottdave]

BB8 was great. I lked the little side trip to the casino. I also liked that these spaceships now have limited resources, like fuel.

 

[fourier jr]

Hi all can I go ahead with spoilers now that the movie is out? So there's that scene in The Last Jedi where Holdo jumps to hyperspace straight into Snoke's flagship, cuts it in half and also destroys about a dozen star destroyers, so I wondered if F=ma what would the force of that collision be? Actually although she went to light speed it looked to me more like an ordinary non-relativistic collision, like the ship was juts a big bowling ball. So there would obviously be relativistic effects since she's jumping to light speed, and that made be wonder if the destruction caused by the collision would be even greater than what is portrayed in the movie considering the radiation & whatnot that would be emitted. Maybe it would also wipe out the Resistance transports that she was trying to help escape? Like in this comedian's description of a baseball being pitched at 90% of the speed of light:



I think it's possible to estimate the size of that Resistance cruiser from the height of the windows and since it's roughly ellipsoidal, work out its semimajor & semiminor axes, and its mass assuming it's made out of steel or ceramic or whatever.

 

[GTOM]

You don’t have to be a child of a Jedi to become a Jedi. Rey isn’t Luke’s daughter but she doesn’t need to be to be a force user. If you like Star Wars it’s definitely worth seeing in the cinema.

But you need training to become a Jedi. Luke needed training. How Anakin destroyed the droid control ship, acceptable with a grain of salt. Rey knew much without any training.

I don't like every kind of Star Wars. Rogue One, ok imperials always fall for old tricks, but otherwise it was great, i liked how the sides were shaded, how it had a rather dark ending.

New ones... well I am pretty sensitive to plotholes and self inconsistency.
Another bad review with spoilers, i think it fits here.
https://thomasdtaylor.wordpress.com/

Leia get back to ship, i think it was ok, if Force can pull objects, she can do it, space isn't an instakill even in reality.
But other parts with spoilers looks like really ridicolous.

 

[XZ923]

I just saw it last night. Sorry, but I thought it was terrible. I'm not sure if it's quite on the level of Phantom Menace terrible, but terrible.

*scrolls up the screen to re-read and make sure spoilers are OK in this thread*

-Turning first Snoke, then Rey's parents into throwaway characters after all the speculation about them was a huge letdown. Backstory? We don't need no stinking backstory!
-As a derivation of that, the fact that Rey's parents are inconsequential cements her status as a Mary Sue character. I had sincerely hoped that the movie would give a story that explains her use of advanced skills with no training. Apparently she can do so just because, well, she's Rey. Isn't that enough?
-The entire side-story with Finn and Rose was a giant waste of time that accomplished nothing for the story. The fact that John Boyega is so bad in the role didn't help.
-The worst part of all was the end. If Luke was going to die, the whole apparition thing was nonsense. He should have showed up in person and gone down in an epic final duel with Kylo Ren so the others could get away (shades of Obi-Wan). Then there could have been a poignant moment in IX where Poe (with due reverence and awe) pilots Luke's X-wing, which we see earlier in the movie and would be how he got to the base. The whole point of an apparition fake-out would be so he could live to fight another day. Instead he just keels over on his rock. Han Solo's death scene was a pivotal moment. Luke's is just boring.

Some smaller gripes:
-Way too much "cutesy" stuff
-Luke drinking milk straight out of a sea monster's udder. Was that really necessary?
-Bombs free-falling from the bomber to the Dreadnought. In space. 'Nuff said.

The only part of the movie I really enjoyed was the Rey/Ren duel with Snoke's guards. That was awesome. In fact the whole dichotomy between the two is very well-done. I think we're setting up for a wild final battle between the two which will hopefully redeem this movie somewhat.

Bottom line is I have no idea how anyone could compare this to Empire Strikes Back. ESB was a true work of cinematic art. Comparing this to it is like comparing stick figures to the Sistine Chapel.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I saw the movie opening night and was disappointed. Lots of plot holes and A to B in ridiculous fashion. Some acting was suspect. Worst of the sequels by far.

 

[scottdave]

...
-Bombs free-falling from the bomber to the Dreadnought. In space. 'Nuff said.

Since they were in the vicinity of a planet, the bombs would still feel the gravitational pull from the planet. The bombs motion would be relative with the other spacecraft s' motion.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Also the bomber craft had magic artificial gravity technology (like every spacecraft in Star Wars). Given that the bomber pilot fell down a ladder running through the bay, and knocked the control to fall down, it makes sense that the bombs would fall out the bottom of the craft when released.

But given that this is a film series that has historically never made much sense scientifically (dog fights in space, planet destroying lasers, hyperspace) you have to pretty much turn off your brain for a lot of it. Star Wars isn’t even internally consistent with its own rules, let alone reality. It’s much more concerned with consistency of style which is where half the entertainment is.

 

[scottdave]

Also the bomber craft had magic artificial gravity technology (like every spacecraft in Star Wars). Given that the bomber pilot fell down a ladder running through the bay, and knocked the control to fall down, it makes sense that the bombs would fall out the bottom of the craft when released.

That makes sense, as well. And once those bombs were given some velocity toward the dreadnought, they would continue on their path.

 

[Janus]

I just saw it last night. Sorry, but I thought it was terrible. I'm not sure if it's quite on the level of Phantom Menace terrible, but terrible.

*scrolls up the screen to re-read and make sure spoilers are OK in this thread*

-Turning first Snoke, then Rey's parents into throwaway characters after all the speculation about them was a huge letdown. Backstory? We don't need no stinking backstory!
-As a derivation of that, the fact that Rey's parents are inconsequential cements her status as a Mary Sue character. I had sincerely hoped that the movie would give a story that explains her use of advanced skills with no training. Apparently she can do so just because, well, she's Rey. Isn't that enough?

I kind of liked what they did with Snoke and Rey's parents. Not every villain has to have a huge backstory. He was not the first Sith master to have his apprentice kill him and take his place. (It seems this would be a common occupational hazard for Sith masters). Rey's parents being nobodies, also makes some sense. New Jedi have to come from somewhere. If use of the force could not arise spontaneously within the population, how could the Jedi lasted? If it were a purely genetic thing, and the Jedi were taking the children which showed the most promise into an order where the members didn't form families or have children, then they would be slowly removing that trait from the gene pool. That is what is partly what Luke meant when he said that he was not the last Jedi; New Jedi could arise from anywhere. This is further underscored in the last scene when you see the young slave boy pull the broom handle to him with the force.

-The worst part of all was the end. If Luke was going to die, the whole apparition thing was nonsense. He should have showed up in person and gone down in an epic final duel with Kylo Ren so the others could get away (shades of Obi-Wan). Then there could have been a poignant moment in IX where Poe (with due reverence and awe) pilots Luke's X-wing, which we see earlier in the movie and would be how he got to the base. The whole point of an apparition fake-out would be so he could live to fight another day. Instead he just keels over on his rock. Han Solo's death scene was a pivotal moment. Luke's is just boring.

Right, and he would have been obliterated by that barrage of fire. So he would have bought them, what, 30 additional seconds? If you cut that barrage bit, people would wonder why Kylo wouldn't have used all that firepower available. Its not like he would have a sense of fair play to go down to meet him man to man. It was only when the barrage failed that he was forced to do so.

On a side note, they did give us a clue that something was not quite right with Luke in that scene. I caught it when Luke pulled out his light saber, and it was his original(A New Hope) version, the one that Rey took with her and was pulled into two pieces by Kylo and Rey. If he had really physically been there, he should have been carrying his "Return of the Jedi" version. (Which is the light saber they show him holding in the flashback scene of his confrontation with Ben.)

 

[scottdave]

Thanks @fourier jr for sharing that TedX video.

 

[XZ923]

Since they were in the vicinity of a planet, the bombs would still feel the gravitational pull from the planet. The bombs motion would be relative with the other spacecraft s' motion.

The bomber was moving across the surface of the Dreadnought at a fairly consistent distance. If the bombs did anything they should have kept moving in that direction. They instead moved perpendicular to the bomber's motion.

I understand that it's Star Wars and so you have to take it with a grain of salt but couldn't they at least have put thrusters on the back similar to proton torpedoes?

New Jedi have to come from somewhere. If use of the force could not arise spontaneously within the population, how could the Jedi lasted? If it were a purely genetic thing, and the Jedi were taking the children which showed the most promise into an order where the members didn't form families or have children, then they would be slowly removing that trait from the gene pool. That is what is partly what Luke meant when he said that he was not the last Jedi; New Jedi could arise from anywhere. This is further underscored in the last scene when you see the young slave boy pull the broom handle to him with the force.

If Jedi so skilled in the Force that they can be stronger than the greatest masters simply appear what was the point of training Jedi in the first place? Even Anakin Skywalker, the Chosen One himself, required training. Rey has never received any training whatsoever and now it appears she never will (no one left to teach her).

Right, and he would have been obliterated by that barrage of fire. So he would have bought them, what, 30 additional seconds? If you cut that barrage bit, people would wonder why Kylo wouldn't have used all that firepower available. Its not like he would have a sense of fair play to go down to meet him man to man. It was only when the barrage failed that he was forced to do so.

We don't know Luke would have been obliterated. He's been in exile on an island for decades studying the ancient texts. He may have learned how to create a personal shield or even repel blasterfire (in ESB Vader easily blocked Han's blaster shots with his bare hand). Surviving the barrage forces Kylo Ren to fight man-to-man, which is exactly what happened. However, what's the point of fooling Ren with an apparition if he instead could have fought in person? The only reason that makes sense is as a means for Luke to achieve the mission (delaying Ren by appearing to sacrifice himself), but actually surviving to fight another day. Why use an apparition to avoid death at Ren's hands just to drop dead on a rock light-years away?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I kind of liked what they did with Snoke and Rey's parents. Not every villain has to have a huge backstory.

At the end with the broom kid it shows anyone can be a jedi.

 

[scottdave]

I guess the ability to travel through other dimensions and tesseract was wasn't available in this universe. His only apparent spacecraft was submerged in seawater. It probably wasn't available. Even if it worked, probably wouldn't be able to get him there in time. So he projected an image of himself there, then fooled Kai Lo Ren and the First Order soldiers long enough so that everyone else could escape.

 

[GTOM]

Seriously? You put a plot spoiler in your thread title less than a week after the film was out?

Pardon? I haven't linked my web site.

 

[GTOM]

I guess the ability to travel through other dimensions and tesseract was wasn't available in this universe. His only apparent spacecraft was submerged in seawater. It probably wasn't available. Even if it worked, probably wouldn't be able to get him there in time. So he projected an image of himself there, then fooled Kai Lo Ren and the First Order soldiers long enough so that everyone else could escape.

He was visited by Rey, so he could definitally left the planet, and join the fight.
If he wasnt interested in the battle between mock Empire, and that Resistance (I guess i have the same feeling), he could have went against the dark force users. Or help his sister...
No, they made him someone rather ignorant and useless who is only willing to fight through a psychic projection, then die because of overload.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Pardon? I haven't linked my web site.

Seems like two threads we’re merged. My post is from another we’re the OP put a spoiler in the title.

 

[XZ923]

I guess the ability to travel through other dimensions and tesseract was wasn't available in this universe. His only apparent spacecraft was submerged in seawater. It probably wasn't available. Even if it worked, probably wouldn't be able to get him there in time. So he projected an image of himself there, then fooled Kai Lo Ren and the First Order soldiers long enough so that everyone else could escape.

1. We don't know it was seawater. Maybe that island's in a big freshwater lake. It is an alien planet after all.
2. It was submerged on Dagobah, didn't stop him from flying off to Bespin
3. You'd think a Jedi Master could get his timing right.

Considering this is sci-fi there is no right answer. I'm just saying that to me TLJ felt more like a cartoon than a serious movie, especially when contrasted against a masterpiece like Empire Strikes Back. Admittedly that's part of the problem as well. As a stand-alone movie it's not that bad, in the same way Godfather Part III and Indiana Jones Part IV weren't terrible as stand-alones. It's the contrast against their predecessors that makes them seem so bad.

 

[lekh2003]

At the end with the broom kid it shows anyone can be a jedi.

I thought that was corny. A lot of things were corny. Sometimes the movie just utilized the drama of the previous movies to intensify this movie.

I really felt like this new series of movies is very much like the original Luke Skywalker movies.

 

[Janus]

We don't know Luke would have been obliterated. He's been in exile on an island for decades studying the ancient texts. He may have learned how to create a personal shield or even repel blasterfire (in ESB Vader easily blocked Han's blaster shots with his bare hand). Surviving the barrage forces Kylo Ren to fight man-to-man, which is exactly what happened. However, what's the point of fooling Ren with an apparition if he instead could have fought in person? The only reason that makes sense is as a means for Luke to achieve the mission (delaying Ren by appearing to sacrifice himself), but actually surviving to fight another day. Why use an apparition to avoid death at Ren's hands just to drop dead on a rock light-years away?

Deflecting the fire from one blaster and surviving that onslaught are two different things. If Luke had been able to raise his powers to that level, he would have been able to swat Kylo like a fly, and then go on to wipe out the entire New Order landing force single-handed. Why bother with just buying time.

I'm sorry, but if they'd had put Luke out there in reality to try to buy time, then I would be the one calling foul. That really would be "Jumping the Shark".
I even remember thinking while seeing him walk out there that it was about the stupidest plan ever. It wasn't until it was revealed that he wasn't really there that it actually made sense.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I can't get over how bad a character Rose was, how Leia floated in space and the uselessness of the casino bit.

 

[XZ923]

Deflecting the fire from one blaster and surviving that onslaught are two different things. If Luke had been able to raise his powers to that level, he would have been able to swat Kylo like a fly, and then go on to wipe out the entire New Order landing force single-handed. Why bother with just buying time.

I'm sorry, but if they'd had put Luke out there in reality to try to buy time, then I would be the one calling foul. That really would be "Jumping the Shark".
I even remember thinking while seeing him walk out there that it was about the stupidest plan ever. It wasn't until it was revealed that he wasn't really there that it actually made sense.

In what is now Legends, Corran Horn was able to absorb a barrage of hundreds (possibly thousands) of blaster bolts in a short period of time; he still got beat shortly thereafter in a lightsaber duel. Having skill over blaster weapons does not make a Jedi invincible. Admittedly that's the "old" canon which Disney has now decided to throw in the trash so they can re-write it with movies chock full of characters and storylines that actually make Jar Jar seem "not that bad" (God help us), but the point stands.

 

[lekh2003]

I can't get over how bad a character Rose was, how Leia floated in space and the uselessness of the casino bit.

Yes, that was terrible. The whole Rose and Finn thing was completely unnecessary. Maybe it was a way to connect the movie to the kids who Rose grew up with, but that was just as unnecessary.

Then there was the code cracker casino guy. Literally useless to the plot.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

RE the Casino scene I don't think it's quite right to say it was useless or unnecessary to the plot. Repeated several times explicitly and oozing from each plot thread in this film is that failure is inevitable but should be learned from (Luke's poor handling of Kylo's dark side, Po's inability to do anything but punch first, Fin's crazy plan to find a code breaker etc). In that respect the casino seen did what it had to do, it was a long-winded and overly ambitious plan that ultimately failed.

That's separate to whether or not the scene was enjoyable. I enjoyed the film because I don't ever really expect much from Star Wars (IMO the originals are classics because no one had done an adventure/monomyth space story yet, all other Sci-Fi was surreal or boringly realistic). However the casino scene was a bit annoying because of how easy it supposedly is to jet off in a spaceship to some planet elsewhere in the galaxy while being chased by a fleet. The film played a bit loose with the "cloaking switch activated" plot device whenever a smaller ship departed from a bigger one, which begs the question why the rebels didn't abandon their cruiser and escape sooner under this magic cloak.

 

[lekh2003]

RE the Casino scene I don't think it's quite right to say it was useless or unnecessary to the plot. Repeated several times explicitly and oozing from each plot thread in this film is that failure is inevitable but should be learned from (Luke's poor handling of Kylo's dark side, Po's inability to do anything but punch first, Fin's crazy plan to find a code breaker etc). In that respect the casino seen did what it had to do, it was a long-winded and overly ambitious plan that ultimately failed.

That's separate to whether or not the scene was enjoyable. I enjoyed the film because I don't ever really expect much from Star Wars (IMO the originals are classics because no one had done an adventure/monomyth space story yet, all other Sci-Fi was surreal or boringly realistic). However the casino scene was a bit annoying because of how easy it supposedly is to jet off in a spaceship to some planet elsewhere in the galaxy while being chased by a fleet. The film played a bit loose with the "cloaking switch activated" plot device whenever a smaller ship departed from a bigger one, which begs the question why the rebels didn't abandon their cruiser and escape sooner under this magic cloak.

I understand that the point was that the plan miraculously failed. However, I feel that they kind of just fast forwarded the whole Finn storyline once the plan failed. It felt rushed. It felt rushed as it went into the plan and out. Not what I would expect from the eight episode of star wars.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

I understand that the point was that the plan miraculously failed. However, I feel that they kind of just fast forwarded the whole Finn storyline once the plan failed. It felt rushed. It felt rushed as it went into the plan and out. Not what I would expect from the eight episode of star wars.

Can’t argue with any of that except for the fact I would expect ridiculous things from Star Wars. The whole plot resolution of the first relied on a very contrived weak spot in the Death Star. Which made for awesome, time spanning cinema but doesn’t necessarily make sense.

 

[XZ923]

Can’t argue with any of that except for the fact I would expect ridiculous things from Star Wars. The whole plot resolution of the first relied on a very contrived weak spot in the Death Star. Which made for awesome, time spanning cinema but doesn’t necessarily make sense.

It was very contrived. That was the whole point of Rogue One. It was put there on purpose by one of the Death Star's designers, essentially as an act of sabotage.

Of course that conflicts with the novel "Death Star" in which it's a construction oversight, but that's Legends.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

It was very contrived. That was the whole point of Rogue One. It was put there on purpose by one of the Death Star's designers, essentially as an act of sabotage.

Of course that conflicts with the novel "Death Star" in which it's a construction oversight, but that's Legends.

This is one of the reasons why I hated rogue one. Aside from the jump cut cinematography was the attempt to retroactively explain stupid.

 

[star apple]

The bomber was moving across the surface of the Dreadnought at a fairly consistent distance. If the bombs did anything they should have kept moving in that direction. They instead moved perpendicular to the bomber's motion.

I understand that it's Star Wars and so you have to take it with a grain of salt but couldn't they at least have put thrusters on the back similar to proton torpedoes?
If Jedi so skilled in the Force that they can be stronger than the greatest masters simply appear what was the point of training Jedi in the first place? Even Anakin Skywalker, the Chosen One himself, required training. Rey has never received any training whatsoever and now it appears she never will (no one left to teach her).
We don't know Luke would have been obliterated. He's been in exile on an island for decades studying the ancient texts. He may have learned how to create a personal shield or even repel blasterfire (in ESB Vader easily blocked Han's blaster shots with his bare hand). Surviving the barrage forces Kylo Ren to fight man-to-man, which is exactly what happened. However, what's the point of fooling Ren with an apparition if he instead could have fought in person? The only reason that makes sense is as a means for Luke to achieve the mission (delaying Ren by appearing to sacrifice himself), but actually surviving to fight another day. Why use an apparition to avoid death at Ren's hands just to drop dead on a rock light-years away?

I like Episode 8 a lot. The writer may be getting the ideas from Occult texts... because here one can explain the action of Luke. In fact, if any fan will mention the above logical "flaws".. the following reasonings can defend the writer logic (from an occult and sci-fi perspective)... according to the occultist book "The Astral Plane: It's Scenery, Inhabitants and Phenomena":

"The principle of sympathetic vibration mentioned above also provides the explanation of that strange and little-known phenomenon called repercussion, by means of which any injury done to, or any mark made upon, the astral body in the course of its wanderings will be reproduced in the physical body. We find traces of this in some of the evidence given at trials for witchcraft in the middle ages, in which it is not infrequently stated that some wound given to the witch when in the form of a dog or a wolf was found to have appeared in the corresponding part of her human body. The same strange law has sometimes led to an entirely unjust accusation of fraud against a medium, because, for example, some colouring matter rubbed upon the hand of a materialized “spirit” was afterwards found upon his hand – the explanation being that in that case, as so often happens, the “spirit” was simply the medium’s astral body or perhaps even his etheric double, forced by the guiding influences to take some form other than his own. In fact the astral and physical bodies are so intimately connected that it is impossible to touch the keynote of one without immediately setting up exactly corresponding vibrations in the other."

Back to Luke.. It may be his astral double appearing in the field as last resort to help his sisters and others. Remember too Luke went to the island to die.. because he was so depressed by his student slaughtering the others that he had no more will to live.. so when Ben Solo sliced his astral body.. it's like Luke wanted to die anyway or he was ignorant that slicing the astral body could kill him. In the Island maybe he hadn't projected his astral body before where he was in a duel where he was defeated.

About Rey not being trained by any Jedi. I like this part the most.. Hope in future movies.. they can emphasize that Jedi training by a Master is really unnecessary and it was only done to control the student later.. this would spread the powerful message one doesn't need a Master. Most of the time, they just want to control you and use your power for their ends. So it's like you are the master of your own Density.. so way to go Rey!

I'd rate AA for the movie!

 

[BillTre]

Generally I liked the movie but thought it was over-rated (not great).

The thing I least liked about it was the Po character's actions and their lack of any significant consequences.
He basically mutinied. Afterwards Leia and Laura Dern's character were discussing it, something to the effect of isn't his stupid behavior cute. In any normal military organization he would have been locked up, if not shot on the spot.

 

[star apple]

Why did the producers hire Kelly Marie Tran as Rose.. they could find others more attractive to look at.. Rey may be attractive but it won't hurt if there is another pretty face in the screen...

 

[lekh2003]

Why did the producers hire Kelly Marie Tran as Rose.. they could find others more attractive to look at.. Rey may be attractive but it won't hurt if there is another pretty face in the screen...

I would assume that that would open them up to criticism from all ends of the spectrum.

 

[star apple]

Is Luke really dead? Wasn't Yoda dead already.. but how come he could appear in the island and make lightning strike the library and burn it down? What was previous Star Wars episodes take on it?

 

[Orodruin]

Why did the producers hire Kelly Marie Tran as Rose.. they could find others more attractive to look at.. Rey may be attractive but it won't hurt if there is another pretty face in the screen...

Really? This is your takeaway? Have you gone out in the real world to see how people actually look? If looks is everything you value in an actress, then I am sure there are other movies you can watch.

Is Luke really dead? Wasn't Yoda dead already.. but how come he could appear in the island and make lightning strike the library and burn it down? What was previous Star Wars episodes take on it?

Yoda is clearly a force apparition in the movie, although I agree it could have been made clearer visually. It is true that we have not previously seen force apparitions actually use force powers, but that is not to say that it is impossible.

 

[Evo]

Regarding the deleted posts, let's remember that this is fiction and not to be compared with actual religious beliefs. Let's keep it unreal, please.

 

[DennisN]

let's remember that this is fiction

But... but... but I believe in the Force. You mean... all this time... my fandom was wasted on... fiction?

Seriously, I've seen the movie now, and I will write a review here soon. I am very divided how I feel about it. Something I've not felt since...

 

[Orodruin]

let's remember that this is fiction

 

[Bigjoemonger]

I can't get over how bad a character Rose was, how Leia floated in space and the uselessness of the casino bit.

I think the whole casino scene was very important. In all the star wars movies the Sith are portrayed as the bad guys and the Jedi as the good side. But much of this movie leaned towards the idea that both sides are wrong. In the casino scene Finn learns that these people are selling to both the Empire and the resistance. Yoda said before that the Jedi were so self involved they were blind to the dark side. Then Yoda destroys the symbolic tree signaling the end of the Jedi. Then all the comments from Luke on how Rey has so much darkness in her.

I think eventually Rey and Kylo will join together and become Gray Jedi, users of both the light and the dark side and the war between the two will finally come to an end.

 

[Algr]

Regarding the deleted posts, let's remember that this is fiction and not to be compared with actual religious beliefs. Let's keep it unreal, please.

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/

We are a Jedi church and international ministry of the religion Jediism and the Jedi way of life. Jedi at this site are not the same as those portrayed within the Star Wars franchise. Star Wars Jedi are fictional characters that exist within a literary and cinematic universe. We are a recognized International Ministry and Public Charity; a tax exempt (donations are US income tax deductible) 501(c)3 non-profit organization.

All things can be taken too seriously.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

A friend of mine I saw the film with initially came away a bit deflated because he felt there was a lot left hanging from TFA that he’d been excited to see explained but it wasn’t. I think this is a common issue from comments I’ve seen from fans. A lot of people appear to have invested a lot in questions like:

- Who was the old man at the start of TFA that gave Po the data and knew Kylo?
- What’s Phasma’s backstory?
- What’s the story behind Snoke?
- Who are Rey’s parents and do they explain her force powers?
- What are the knights of Ren?

Etcetera etcetera. The same mate texted me today having read an interesting comment somewhere about how this is all typical for J.J Abrams. The dude even did a TED talk about how an unopened mystery box is more valuable to him than opening the box. Given that there may never have been some fascinating backstory behind any of these that could have impacted the plot, they’re just filler backstory.

If people were interested in that kind of thing I can totally see why TLJ was a disappointment. But if you never really cared then it’s easier to enjoy the film as the adventure story it was.

 

[George Jones]

My wife, daughter, and I went to see it last night

Also the cruiser hyperjumping through the mega-Star destroyer and cutting it in half was one of the best shots I’ve seen in cinema in ages.

When it became clear what Holdo was going to do, I said to my wife "shades of Commodore Matt Decker", but this was meaningless to her.

 

[Orodruin]

When it became clear what Holdo was going to do, I said to my wife "shades of Commodore Matt Decker", but this was meaningless to her.

Wrong franchise ...

 

[Rive]

Generally I liked the movie but thought it was over-rated (not great).

As a movie alone, it's just acceptable.
As a rebellious part of the whole old Star Wars series/universe, it can be considered 'great' (or a 'failure', depending on one's point of view).

Nostalgic feelings aside, the original series (ep. IV, V, VI) are also not up to the actual standards. They are from the same age as the BSG TOS, and if somebody has the necessary masochist mindset to watch them together then plenty of similarities can be found. Yet, the BSG needed a complete redo to resurrect the brand, while SW lived on based on the legend alone. But that also means that it could not really evolve and stuck in the past.

The 'great' part of this movie is that many old plot 'solutions' were broken down to fit some new 'realities' on by one. If this is an opening of a new era and they will have the guts to continue, then I'll just accept it and go on with the flow. It'll be interesting.

If they can't follow up, then I'll just forget this movie and go on with my nostalgic feelings towards the extended universe.

 

[GTOM]

Some said, that this could have been okay with a clean start.

But it isn't the Star Wars we liked.
Because in the Star Wars we liked:
Luke wasnt someone who just sits on an island instead of help people important to him.
The Force don't just magically upload all necessary knowledge to a random girl.
It should have been mentioned in the film, okay what happened after Emperor was defeated, what is the situation of New Republic, why don't they act? (Not rely on star wars wiki etc)
Rebels weren't a bunch of space punks
Hux and his kind? They had been glad to lead a backwater garrison.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Luke wasnt someone who just sits on an island instead of help people important to him.

It's called character development? He had a pretty convincing reason to become an embittered old man which Mark Hamel acted beautifully.

The Force don't just magically upload all necessary knowledge to a random girl.

No? How much "training" did Luke do exactly? In a New Hope Luke played with that floating laser ball for a few minutes, was blindfolded and told just to "feel it" and then instantly managed to block light sabre shots. Later in the film, with no further training because Ben died, he turns off his targeting computer and "feels it" enough to make a one-in-a-million shot. In Empire he first uses the force to pick up his light sabre when beaten and hanging upside down in a cave, despite there being no one to train him. When he meets Yoda all he does is some crossfit, then he goes off and fights Vader one-on-one and holds his own for most of it. Despite never having fought with a light sabre before against anything other than an animal (the rematch in Jedi is his second ever light sabre fight and he beats vader hands down). When we next see Luke in the third film he's mind tricking, having telepathic senses/intuition etc.

Nothing we've ever been shown about the force suggests it needs extensive study to use. Rather, every case we're shown it's more one of learning to put yourself in a position to feel it and act on instinct. Powerful force users seem to pick this up much more naturally (Anakin was instinctively predicting a few seconds into the future by age 10 allowing him to Podrace with species which much faster reflexes). If Rey is a powerful force user, which she has all the makings of being, it completely fits with a lot of what we've seen that she has an instinctive grasp of the powers. Her backstory also explains why she's not bad with a light sabre given that she grew up in a hostile environment and for most of her life has carried around metal sticks to fight people off with (as opposed to Luke who sat around playing with toys on a farm).

Fair criticism is one thing but there seems to be these weird assumptions floating around from star wars fans about canon that never actually existed.

It should have been mentioned in the film, okay what happened after Emperor was defeated, what is the situation of New Republic, why don't they act? (Not rely on star wars wiki etc)

Agreed. One of the annoying things about this new trilogy is that we have no idea what the state of the galaxy is. I'm not sure how much JJ "Mystery Box" Abrams has to blame for that but it's certainly frustrating not to have a good idea of what the New Republic was, how big the First Order was etc. At least the casino scene, awkward as it may have been, was an effort towards showing us a slice of life for the rest of the galaxy.

Rebels weren't a bunch of space punks
Hux and his kind? They had been glad to lead a backwater garrison.

This is something I really like about the new films. A lot of the major characters seem to have idolised characters from the originals that they want to live up to but can't for some reason. Kylo idolized his grandfather Vader but struggles much more with his emotional conflicts. Hux wants to be a formidable, intimidating leader like Grand Mof Tarken but he doesn't have the skill to back up the ambition. Po wants to be the kind of cowboy rebel they're famous for being but ends up screwing things up by violating the chain of command and coming up with stupid plans etc.

 

[GTOM]

It's called character development? He had a pretty convincing reason to become an embittered old man which Mark Hamel acted beautifully.
No? How much "training" did Luke do exactly? In a New Hope Luke played with that floating laser ball for a few minutes, was blindfolded and told just to "feel it" and then instantly managed to block light sabre shots. Later in the film, with no further training because Ben died, he turns off his targeting computer and "feels it" enough to make a one-in-a-million shot. In Empire he first uses the force to pick up his light sabre when beaten and hanging upside down in a cave, despite there being no one to train him. When he meets Yoda all he does is some crossfit, then he goes off and fights Vader one-on-one and holds his own for most of it. Despite never having fought with a light sabre before against anything other than an animal (the rematch in Jedi is his second ever light sabre fight and he beats vader hands down). When we next see Luke in the third film he's mind tricking, having telepathic senses/intuition etc.

Nothing we've ever been shown about the force suggests it needs extensive study to use. Rather, every case we're shown it's more one of learning to put yourself in a position to feel it and act on instinct. Powerful force users seem to pick this up much more naturally (Anakin was instinctively predicting a few seconds into the future by age 10 allowing him to Podrace with species which much faster reflexes). If Rey is a powerful force user, which she has all the makings of being, it completely fits with a lot of what we've seen that she has an instinctive grasp of the powers. Her backstory also explains why she's not bad with a light sabre given that she grew up in a hostile environment and for most of her life has carried around metal sticks to fight people off with (as opposed to Luke who sat around playing with toys on a farm).

Fair criticism is one thing but there seems to be these weird assumptions floating around from star wars fans about canon that never actually existed.

Speak about Mark Hamill, he also thinks Luke was ruined. How he died was especially humiliating. Like in Star Trek they droned the ship from Earth, then die because of a short circuit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-Hamill-doesnt-like-Jedis-Luke-Skywalker.html

Maybe i would watch the new part, if in the name of realism, Rey had similar character development, and turned Sith.

Luke learned how to fly and hunt small game. His development lasted through three films, plenty of time in and out screen, and he needed two of the most powerful trainers. The only reason he could survive against Vader in Strikes Back that he didnt want to kill his son. Maybe he was a superhero, but not near as much as Rey. She could fly Falcon use Mind Trick without any training. The meelee part is ok.