Calculators Which calculator? Hp 50G vs Ti89 Titanium

[only_huce]

wencke530,

If you're an undergrad in EE all you really need is a TI83. That's what most classes recommend. Alot of courses engineering related, at least at my school, don't allow you to use calculators on exams. And I know many people who used TI89's to do the calculations for their homework assignments in calc 3, linear algebra, etc. and therefore didn't learn how to do it on their own for the exams which hurt them in the long run. So save your money and just get yourself a TI83, it'll take you longer to do the HW problems in some of your math classes but you'll be thankful when you know how to do it all on your own come exam time.

Also, a lot of the stuff EE's deal with like laplace transforms and other stuff can't really be done with an 89 or 50g alone. You need MATLAB or mathematica if you want something to compute the more complicated math for you. Although I may be wrong about the 89 aned 50g not being able to do that.

 

[jtbell]

At my school, almost all science students use a TI83+ or TI84+ (or the earlier non-"plus") models because that's what the math department recommends for their calculus classes. They use the graphing capability extensively. For anything that can't be handled by that level of calculator, people switch to appropriate computer software.

The TI89 is a nice machine, but I think it's overkill for most undergraduates, as is the HP 50g. On the other hand, amazon.com now sells the 50g for about the same price as the TI84+!

I've used HP calculators since graduate school (late 1970s), and prefer RPN to algebraic data entry. Until recently my newest HP was an 11C that has to be more than 20 years old because it was discontinued in 1989 according to the Museum of HP Calculators. I still use the 11C at home, even though I now use TI's at the office so as to be compatible with my students.

Last week I noticed that Best Buy had the HP 50g on clearance at about $95 (less than I paid for my TI84+), so I grabbed it. I haven't had a chance to play with it yet.

 

[Count Iblis]

My father let me play with his HP 11C when I was in primary school. I think that helped me master abstract math. I later bought the HP 28s. Never was that any substitute to doing homework problems. Quite the opposite; it allowed me to do far more things than I would otherwise have done.

If you are in high school you have plenty of time on your hand. If you are a bit ahead in math and physics and find these subjects interesting, then a calculator like the HP 50g should be the best present your parents can give to you. It will make it easier for you to explore the world of math and physics, causing you get far more experience with these subjects at a young age.

 

[ibcnunabit]

For those hesitant about the HP because they're unsure about RPN, just know that it works not only in RPN, but in algebraic mode as well. The HP 50G looks and feels great in addition to being uber-powerful. And how many calculators can you play Doom, Tetris, Dune, Mario Bros., or Pac-Man on? Or use as a remote for your TV? (Imagine using it to turn off crap TV in the student center.) ;) Not that you should buy it for those things, but they do illustrate the excess power and flexibility of the device.

 

[ibcnunabit]

...Anyway what's the use of reducing keystrokes when very little of the time a proficient calculator user spends is on entering things?

Well, it DOES make a difference, particularly on very in-depth calculations. But more importantly, it allows you to better keep track of intermediate results and access them immediately and intuitively (and faster). That's big, for me. ALSO, note: you don't have to use RPN unless you want to! It also has an infix algebraic mode, as well as a visual "textbook" mode--so you have ultimate flexibility. But once you "get" RPN, I dare say you won't go back. You have to experience it to really understand how much better it is.

You can also program it in C, User RPL, System RPL, HP Basic (not BASIC), Saturn Assembly, and ARM Assembly. Since you mentioned Scheme, if anyone decides to write a basic Scheme interpreter for the HP 50G, please post it here! That would be AWESOME and I would award you many haxor points. :D

--Mike

 

[sixfor]

hello everyone

what is the maximum size of memory card that can be supported by hp 50g? can someone explain to me in brief

 

[ibcnunabit]

Sure--it can handle anything up to a 2 GB SD card. The standard for SD was expanded for any size card AFTER it had already been incorporated into the HP 50g, otherwise there'd be no limit. But there's little chance you'll EVER fill up 2GBs on your calculator, and even if you did, you can just pop another card in.

--Mike from Shreveport

 

[ibcnunabit]

I am going for a B.Sc. in EE.

Is the 50g overkill? Would it be a better investment to purchase a 35s, as I would likely not be able to use a 50g on an exam?

I'd rather become familiar with the device I am actually going to be using. I'd hate to spend $150.00 on something that I won't be able to use on the exams.

-Robert

Overkill? Not for EE, are you kidding? You'll especially need that power. Engineers are one of the main groups of people this calculator was created for--probably electrical engineers more than anybody. There are some great EE programs out there for it, too, from what I can recall.

As for exams, there is a risk of it not being allowed in some class or other, but I can tell you that it is accepted on the AP Calculus, SAT I/II, and PSAT/NMSQT tests. You should be able to check the calculator policies of your school and find out what calculators are allowed in various classes.

This info was provided on the HP site:

ACT®, PLAN® and EXPLORE® are registered trademarks of ACT, Inc., which was not involved in the production of and does not endorse this product. For more information, go to www.act.org[/url]. AP Calculus requires a graphing calculator. [B]Any scientific or graphing calculator (Excludes models with QWERTY (i.e. typewriter) keyboards, electronic writing pads, and pen-input/stylus-driven devices) is permitted for the following College Board tests:[/B] AP Chemistry, AP Physics, AP Statistics (a graphing calculator with statistical capabilities is expected), PSAT/NMSQT, SAT® Reasoning and SAT® Subject Tests™ in Mathematics Level 1 and Level 2. For more information go to [url]www.collegeboard.com[/URL]. Policies are subject to change. AP® and SAT® are registered trademarks of the College Board. PSAT/NMSQT® is a registered trademark of both the College Board and National Merit Scholarship Corporation which were not involved in the production of and do not endorse this product.

 

[sixfor]

Sure--it can handle anything up to a 2 GB SD card. The standard for SD was expanded for any size card AFTER it had already been incorporated into the HP 50g, otherwise there'd be no limit. But there's little chance you'll EVER fill up 2GBs on your calculator, and even if you did, you can just pop another card in.

--Mike from Shreveport

thanks but i don't really get what u said heheh

 

[jtbell]

There are actually two different types of memory card that have the same physical shape and size: SD and SDHC.

SD cards have a maximum capacity of 2 GB. Larger-capacity cards that look like SD cards are actually SDHC cards, but people often call them "SD" anyway. The 50g was probably designed before the SDHC standard was created, so it accepts only SD cards.

There is a similar situation with digital cameras. Older ones accept only SD, but newer ones accept both SD and SDHC.

 

[ibcnunabit]

There are actually two different types of memory card that have the same physical shape and size: SD and SDHC.

SD cards have a maximum capacity of 2 GB. Larger-capacity cards that look like SD cards are actually SDHC cards, but people often call them "SD" anyway. The 50g was probably designed before the SDHC standard was created, so it accepts only SD cards.

There is a similar situation with digital cameras. Older ones accept only SD, but newer ones accept both SD and SDHC.

Exactly, but they're essentially the same "type" of card *physically* ; the "HC" in SDHC is for "high capacity." The standard was jiggered to eliminate the 2 GB limit. So SDHC cards are SD cards, but SD cards aren't necessarily SDHC cards.

 

[ibcnunabit]

Negation is an operation; it's an example of a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unary_operation" .

No, according to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations" , -2^4 = 16.

There is no law that prohibits a company from marketing calculators or computer software (e.g, Microsoft Excel) that use a non-standard order of operations, but I think it is silly to do so.

This reminds me of a joke I once read. How many Microsoft employees does it take to change a burnt-out lightbulb? None. Microsoft declares darkness the standard.

A standard order of operstions aids communication; if everyone follows the standard, then everyone knows what a given expression means. In the standard order of operations, the power operation takes precedence over negation.

As an example, consider the equation

-x^2 + 16 = 0.

According to the standard order of operations, x = -4 and x = 4 are solutions to this equation. According to your non-standard order of operations, x = -4i and x = 4i are solutions to this equation, which seems quite bizarre.

I applaud TI for using the standard order of operations. Maple also follows the standard order of operstions and returns -2^4 = -16.

Agreed.

FORTUNATELY, if you have an HP 50G and use RPN, all this drama becomes moot, because your intention is unambiguously executed:

If by -2^4 you mean (-2)^4, then you just punch in: ( "[ ]" signifies a given key )

[2] [+/-] [4] [Y^X] and get: 16

But if by -2^4 you mean -(2^4), then you just punch in:

[2] [4] [Y^X] [+/-] and get: -16

In both cases you get your intended answer, and in neither case do you have to add parentheses. In fact, you push 4 keys each time, which is the very minimum that you could punch into get the answer. This is just a basic, basic, minimalist example of why RPN is so great--it's SO much better when you have a complex computation.

 

[KimbaWLion]

Hello there Peoples :-)

JUST my 2-3 cents. My daughter went into Algebra 2 this year. All the kids in class has either a TI-83, TI-83+, 1 had a TI-89 and one even had a TI-NSpire. I have ALWAYS been a fan of HP, my first being a HP-21 and my father's being an HP-25C. I eventually replaced that HP-21 with my still working and useful HP-41CV with the math/stat pack.

Since its for my daughter it JUST had to be an HP. I got her an HP-50G open box, but new, complete with everything off ebay for $76.00, pretty good pricing. Here is what I found out the hard way. The school is TOTAL geared for the TI calcs. While the HP MAY do all that and more than any of the TIs it does not do it natively. Her teacher even tried to help her, to no avail, on how to make it do what the TI did automatically. I am sure that it can,the HP-that is, but my 10th grade daughter is not into programing her HP-50g nor does she really have time to learn, and me being a Civil Engineer makes programing very time consuming for me.

So for this year she demanded another calculator because with the summer homework pack she could not get her calc to do what she wanted, and she did try. We went to a local chain office supply store that had all the calcs the cheapest in the area. I tried to talk her into the TI-NSpire or the TI-89 and she was having NONE of that. She made me get her a TI-84+ silver edition ( includes downloads and SAT and ACT downloads and greater memory) she is now whizzing through her math homework where she was totally stymied with the much more powerful HP-50G. So if your looking at this from a kids point of view you have to consider that. In a world where a LOT of schools are geared for the TI, having an HP can cause pain. Now if somebody were to make a program to make your HP work JUST Like a TI-84s or 89s menus that would be really useful.

The end result is while the they are both great calcs., my preference being the HP-50G, it proved to a large hurtle for my daughter to climb and I ended up buy a new TI-84 silver edition for MORE money that the much better HP-50G. Totally ironic uh? I had to get her another less powerful calculator so she could function in class. Maybe in college it may be more useful but I am going to guess in 2 years MOST likely either of these calcs. will be totally outdated though I hope not. Once again JUST my 2-3 cents worth. Hope this helps somebody.

 

[AllPurposeGur]

This is exactly what I've seen. TI provides tons of input, including free hardware to the writers and to the book publishers, and gets their calculators' keysequences published DIRECTLY in the book. Some publishers even offer purchase of the calculators at a discount courtesy of TI.

I personally think it sucks. One, I have to buy my son what I would consider to be a HORRIBLE calculator, the prices of which are elevated because of the in-built demand, and the education suffers because not only is the text written such that the TI calculators are required to follow the flow, but far too much dependency is placed onto the calculator.

If the publishers were to write books that did NOT assume a particular calculator paradigm, or, for that matter, NO calculator paradigm, the students would, IMHO, fare much better than they do now.

(and I'm not being an old curmudgeon. I've had a HP-41CV since 11th grade.)

The fact that I had to learn how to use it, rather than being told "press Solve, then 0, then 100, then .1, then ")" then "ANS", actually helped me to understand what was going on BETTER.

Hello there Peoples :-)

JUST my 2-3 cents. My daughter went into Algebra 2 this year. All the kids in class has either a TI-83, TI-83+, 1 had a TI-89 and one even had a TI-NSpire. I have ALWAYS been a fan of HP, my first being a HP-21 and my father's being an HP-25C. I eventually replaced that HP-21 with my still working and useful HP-41CV with the math/stat pack.

Since its for my daughter it JUST had to be an HP. I got her an HP-50G open box, but new, complete with everything off ebay for $76.00, pretty good pricing. Here is what I found out the hard way. The school is TOTAL geared for the TI calcs. While the HP MAY do all that and more than any of the TIs it does not do it natively. Her teacher even tried to help her, to no avail, on how to make it do what the TI did automatically. I am sure that it can,the HP-that is, but my 10th grade daughter is not into programing her HP-50g nor does she really have time to learn, and me being a Civil Engineer makes programing very time consuming for me.

So for this year she demanded another calculator because with the summer homework pack she could not get her calc to do what she wanted, and she did try. We went to a local chain office supply store that had all the calcs the cheapest in the area. I tried to talk her into the TI-NSpire or the TI-89 and she was having NONE of that. She made me get her a TI-84+ silver edition ( includes downloads and SAT and ACT downloads and greater memory) she is now whizzing through her math homework where she was totally stymied with the much more powerful HP-50G. So if your looking at this from a kids point of view you have to consider that. In a world where a LOT of schools are geared for the TI, having an HP can cause pain. Now if somebody were to make a program to make your HP work JUST Like a TI-84s or 89s menus that would be really useful.

The end result is while the they are both great calcs., my preference being the HP-50G, it proved to a large hurtle for my daughter to climb and I ended up buy a new TI-84 silver edition for MORE money that the much better HP-50G. Totally ironic uh? I had to get her another less powerful calculator so she could function in class. Maybe in college it may be more useful but I am going to guess in 2 years MOST likely either of these calcs. will be totally outdated though I hope not. Once again JUST my 2-3 cents worth. Hope this helps somebody.

 

[AllPurposeGur]

I even found my son a TI-83 clone that runs on his iPod (called PI-83) but he's scared to depend on it because of the total dependency of the class on the calculator.

*sigh* at least the stupid TI-84+ is on sale this week at Target...

Hello there Peoples :-)

JUST my 2-3 cents. My daughter went into Algebra 2 this year. All the kids in class has either a TI-83, TI-83+, 1 had a TI-89 and one even had a TI-NSpire. I have ALWAYS been a fan of HP, my first being a HP-21 and my father's being an HP-25C. I eventually replaced that HP-21 with my still working and useful HP-41CV with the math/stat pack.

Since its for my daughter it JUST had to be an HP. I got her an HP-50G open box, but new, complete with everything off ebay for $76.00, pretty good pricing. Here is what I found out the hard way. The school is TOTAL geared for the TI calcs. While the HP MAY do all that and more than any of the TIs it does not do it natively. Her teacher even tried to help her, to no avail, on how to make it do what the TI did automatically. I am sure that it can,the HP-that is, but my 10th grade daughter is not into programing her HP-50g nor does she really have time to learn, and me being a Civil Engineer makes programing very time consuming for me.

So for this year she demanded another calculator because with the summer homework pack she could not get her calc to do what she wanted, and she did try. We went to a local chain office supply store that had all the calcs the cheapest in the area. I tried to talk her into the TI-NSpire or the TI-89 and she was having NONE of that. She made me get her a TI-84+ silver edition ( includes downloads and SAT and ACT downloads and greater memory) she is now whizzing through her math homework where she was totally stymied with the much more powerful HP-50G. So if your looking at this from a kids point of view you have to consider that. In a world where a LOT of schools are geared for the TI, having an HP can cause pain. Now if somebody were to make a program to make your HP work JUST Like a TI-84s or 89s menus that would be really useful.

The end result is while the they are both great calcs., my preference being the HP-50G, it proved to a large hurtle for my daughter to climb and I ended up buy a new TI-84 silver edition for MORE money that the much better HP-50G. Totally ironic uh? I had to get her another less powerful calculator so she could function in class. Maybe in college it may be more useful but I am going to guess in 2 years MOST likely either of these calcs. will be totally outdated though I hope not. Once again JUST my 2-3 cents worth. Hope this helps somebody.

 

[KimbaWLion]

While reading this the reply to this thread one thing did come to mind. When she has either Calc. or AP Calc. next year she MAY ready for that HP50G since I believe the TI-84+ silver edition is just not going to be enough, at least that is what I am hoping. I do hope that HP is hearing all that is out there and the people going to that calculator convention. I would LOVE to see a new top of the line completely explain easy to use powerhouse, I CAN Dream can't I?

 

[AC2000]

I'm about to buy a new calculator for my son...mainly for his high school math...

I used to own a HP-41CV when I was a EE student about 20 years ago. It never disappointed me and helped me to survive those years.

As many others pointed out, those who use RPN never want to switch back to non-RPN calculators. I'm one of those, thus I personally prefer HP-50G...

The only other consideration...I found out that TI-89 is very popular for high school students and got a bigger user support groups than HP.

It is a hard decision to make...any suggestions?

 

[KimbaWLion]

As I have wrote in my previous post, my local HS as well as almost every other one is geared for the TI, it matters little which, 83-89 in HS. (I can not speak or think for everyone but that's my best guess). I would bet soon either or the HP or the TI will end up being replacing these as they are years old.

I learned the hard way, for HS if your school is geared for TI, go TI. My daughter learned this the hard way because of me and I needed to buy 2 calculators since the HP-50G did not do specifically what was required natively and I ended up paying more for a less powerful calculator and that REALLY hurts...

 

[Count Iblis]

I'm about to buy a new calculator for my son...mainly for his high school math...

I used to own a HP-41CV when I was a EE student about 20 years ago. It never disappointed me and helped me to survive those years.

As many others pointed out, those who use RPN never want to switch back to non-RPN calculators. I'm one of those, thus I personally prefer HP-50G...

The only other consideration...I found out that TI-89 is very popular for high school students and got a bigger user support groups than HP.

It is a hard decision to make...any suggestions?

If your son is someone who likes to do math, then the HP- 50G would be the best option. That calculator is way superior to the TI, but it may require a bit more study to use it properly.

It is a bit like buying a new DVD player for your aging parents. You should not buy a very sophisticated thing if they can't be bothered to study the manual and try out the various functions for themselves.

 

[KimbaWLion]

If your son is someone who likes to do math, then the HP- 50G would be the best option. That calculator is way superior to the TI, but it may require a bit more study to use it properly.

It is a bit like buying a new DVD player for your aging parents. You should not buy a very sophisticated thing if they can't be bothered to study the manual and try out the various functions for themselves.

As I posted previously my daughter's school was totally geared for the TI. The HP-50g did not do a lot of what was required easily or natively, and the teacher even borrowed the instruction manual and the calculator. She could not make it do what was required and she was the Math Dept. head and a very intelligent person.

I am sure it can do what was required, and so was she, but neither my daughter, me or the teacher could get it to do in a manner that was fast and easy or in some cases at all. It was in reference to how it graphs and tables that it required. I am sure it can do it but there is a limit at times that one has to get work done.

My daughter is in all advance classes including AP Physics this year with Trig., and should have AP Calculus next year. It is there that I think the HP-50G will shine because it IS a more powerful calculator. In math classes where the books and the teacher require specific answers in a specific manner native to the TI it has little to do with more study to use it properly. I was very disheartened to have to buy a TI for my daughter since my trusty HP-41 has been so useful over the years, and still is btw, and the thought of her using a non HP kind of bothers me in small way.

I know this sounds like like I am downing TI, this is NOT the case. I am just an overly loyal HP user and firmly believe that overall, over time the HP will do things better for her. It is just that the school makes it a LOT harder not to be one of the "pack". I agree with the statement that the HP-50g is a superior calculator I have ended up using both due to this.

What made my life easier was watching my daughter and her girlfriends with TIs come over and do their summer homework packet together and getting identical results the same way and being able to help and show each other what do when one went "awry". It reminds me of my trig/math functions class in 11th grade so long ago. They all had TI-30s and I had an HP-21 and with RPN ran circles around their TI-30s which are long dead and my HP-21 still works like new after being able to modify the battery pack. Now that was and is quality. My father still has his HP-25C and the printing verison of that HP-19C was it? I forget...

The end result is see what the school is pushing and think about what you son needs for now and in the future. For her Algerbra class I ended up having her borrow the teachers calculator since I had bought her the HP and asked the teacher to see if there was a class lender so I would not have to buy another till the next school year. I saw the school adds and picked the TI-84+ silver which I knew was going to be at the lowest price of the year. There was one TI-Nspire in the class as well as one TI-89 for the record.
Good luck in whatever choice you make!

 

[fmttu]

TI users just don't get it. It's like when you learned cursive in 3rd grade. Yes, there was a learning curve, but once you learned it there was no effort in "translating" from printed letters. Afterwards you wondered why anybody would ever print. RPN is like that. Once you learn it, it's natural, much faster and easier. I can't even work a TI anymore - and wouldn't want to.

Last year I worked with our school's calculator math team that took dead last the year before with TI's. We pitched those in the trash and bought HP 35S calculators. The kids loved them - they hated the TI's. At the end of the semester they won 1st place and every one of them attributed it to the ease of the HP.

I, myself competed twice at the TX UIL state level with an HP 32e. I started out with a TI and man am I glad my math teacher showed me the HP way. I'm now an engineer and I use several HP's daily. I use a 35S on my desk. I use an HP emulator for windows and one on my Blackberry from Lygea. All I can say is give RPN a try - you'll love it or I'll gladly buy your HP from you.

 

[Count Iblis]

Hmmmm:

In math classes where the books and the teacher require specific answers in a specific manner native to the TI it has little to do with more study to use it properly.

I would remove my child from a school that teaches math this way. Thing is that you don't even need calculators to learn math. A simple calculator that can evaluate logarithms, exponentials, and trigonometric functions is more than enough.

 

[lodc]

I found the same bias towards TI calculators when I was in HS some years ago, to the point where one teacher insisted I would not be able to do the classwork with my 48SX.

Being the type of guy (nerd?) who enjoys math and playing with calculators, I took this as a challenge and in fact did very well in the class using my HP. The process of converting from the lame TI "press this, now press that" instructions into the equivalent process on my HP forced me to understand what we were doing and why we were doing it. I wrote some simple functions to speed the translation, and in doing so probably came to understand the TI process better than those using the TIs.

That said, for an average student I would probably recommend getting whatever the instructor recommends, which will probably be TI due to their sadly effective marketing. You will pass the class with less effort, although also with possibly less understanding.

 

[sixfor]

s = h[64*(theta/beta)^3-192*(theta/beta)^4-192*(theta/beta)^5-64*(theta/beta)^6]

can someone teach me how to plot the regarding graph
thanks in advance

 

[jtbell]

Which calculator are you using?

 

[sixfor]

hp 50g

 

[surveyor]

Is TI-89 calculator legible for college exams?

 

[jtbell]

legible

I assume you mean "legal" (permitted, allowed). The answer to this question varies for different colleges, and even for different courses in the same college. It should be specified in the course's syllabus.

 

[Shajnush Amir]

This is exactly what I've seen. TI provides tons of input, including free hardware to the writers and to the book publishers, and gets their calculators' keysequences published DIRECTLY in the book. Some publishers even offer purchase of the calculators at a discount courtesy of TI.

I personally think it sucks. One, I have to buy my son what I would consider to be a HORRIBLE calculator, the prices of which are elevated because of the in-built demand, and the education suffers because not only is the text written such that the TI calculators are required to follow the flow, but far too much dependency is placed onto the calculator.

If the publishers were to write books that did NOT assume a particular calculator paradigm, or, for that matter, NO calculator paradigm, the students would, IMHO, fare much better than they do now.

(and I'm not being an old curmudgeon. I've had a HP-41CV since 11th grade.)

The fact that I had to learn how to use it, rather than being told "press Solve, then 0, then 100, then .1, then ")" then "ANS", actually helped me to understand what was going on BETTER.

Exactly, i am in year 12 now. I got hold of a HP 50g after reading this forum. At first I had some problems but I held on to it, I used to keep a Casio 991 ES with me for emergency. My friends teased me for getting a HP. I printed the advanced manual for quick reference. Now after about a year of use I a can do anyhing with it and to my delight my HP 50g outruns all TIs in my class. And RPN is just beautiful...

 

[Shajnush Amir]

I'm about to buy a new calculator for my son...mainly for his high school math...

I used to own a HP-41CV when I was a EE student about 20 years ago. It never disappointed me and helped me to survive those years.

As many others pointed out, those who use RPN never want to switch back to non-RPN calculators. I'm one of those, thus I personally prefer HP-50G...

The only other consideration...I found out that TI-89 is very popular for high school students and got a bigger user support groups than HP.

It is a hard decision to make...any suggestions?

I am in year 12 now. I got a HP 50g last year even though my class preferred TI. At first it was a bit difficult to cope with it and kept a Casio 991ES for emergency use. Than I printed the Advanced manual. and after a year of use I am quite proficient with my HP and I love RPN and it outruns TI.. If your son is willing to do a bit of work on the calculator other than studies it won't be a problem. Moreover, in the long run it helped me a lot... While going through the Advanced manual I came across some interesting topics and the exercises in the manual also helped a lot.

 

[Shajnush Amir]

TI users just don't get it. It's like when you learned cursive in 3rd grade. Yes, there was a learning curve, but once you learned it there was no effort in "translating" from printed letters. Afterwards you wondered why anybody would ever print. RPN is like that. Once you learn it, it's natural, much faster and easier. I can't even work a TI anymore - and wouldn't want to.

Last year I worked with our school's calculator math team that took dead last the year before with TI's. We pitched those in the trash and bought HP 35S calculators. The kids loved them - they hated the TI's. At the end of the semester they won 1st place and every one of them attributed it to the ease of the HP.

I, myself competed twice at the TX UIL state level with an HP 32e. I started out with a TI and man am I glad my math teacher showed me the HP way. I'm now an engineer and I use several HP's daily. I use a 35S on my desk. I use an HP emulator for windows and one on my Blackberry from Lygea. All I can say is give RPN a try - you'll love it or I'll gladly buy your HP from you.

I hope I had a HP loving teacher...

 

[lunabirhd]

I love my 89

 

[lunabirhd]

I have a problem. I hope one of you can help me with this. my TI-86 answers every problem with an E answer. example: 3*3=9E0 How do I make it stop doing this? This has always been a great calc till it started doing this. you can reply to my email lunabirhd@yahoo.com

 

[sixfor]

and i love my 50g

 

[lunabirhd]

Is TI-89 calculator legible for college exams?

i was never allowed

 

[lunabirhd]

Thanks if you were going to give me an answer but as soon as I posted...I figured it out.:-) Thanks anyways!

 

[AudreeArringt]

Hello FrogPad,

Thank you very much, your link RPN TI89 software. Now, I am inclined to give IT a try. But when I read elsewhere, there are several changes between the TI89 and TI89-Titanium and some software to run again planning titanium. Does anyone know if the RPN-(latest software update 2000) is compatible with the TI89-Titanium? Thank you very much... :) :)

 

[ToddA]

I had that keytime problem and it is fixable. Keytime defaults to some number around 1300. You need to decrease it. 400 is good. In RPN mode enter 400, then enter ->KEYTIME. In algebraic mode enter ->KEYTIME(400).

You can set that keytime value as a startup default by creating a program as follows, between the quotes - "<< 400 ->KEYTIME >>". Store it in the home directory as a file named STARTUP. Reboot cause STARTUP to be executed (also good for setting you own default system flags).

HP support should have answered this quickly.

Hey thanks, saw your suggestion and tried it! Typing works much better now! I'm just getting into programming my new 50g, my 48G+ of 13 years did not mix will with coffee, that was one very nice device! Keying in the keytime command on the stack did not work, (I must have missed something) but I did find it in the Catalogue, very slick!

 

[N6VC]

HP.

I have never owned or tried a TI.

I am a bit of a different user. I write custom RPN programs to determine all kinds of trig based lengths for framing wooden structures.

RPN and the stack have provided a good living for me and my family...being a techno-framer keeps me a cut above the rest.

HP just needs to offer a job-site friendly armored case, or ruggedized version...that would be a 10 out of 10 for sure.

Here is a link to an environmental case to use with the HP50
http://pssllc.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=11

 

[N6VC]

Hello there Peoples :-)

JUST my 2-3 cents. My daughter went into Algebra 2 this year. All the kids in class has either a TI-83, TI-83+, 1 had a TI-89 and one even had a TI-NSpire. I have ALWAYS been a fan of HP, my first being a HP-21 and my father's being an HP-25C. I eventually replaced that HP-21 with my still working and useful HP-41CV with the math/stat pack.

Since its for my daughter it JUST had to be an HP. I got her an HP-50G open box, but new, complete with everything off ebay for $76.00, pretty good pricing. Here is what I found out the hard way. The school is TOTAL geared for the TI calcs. While the HP MAY do all that and more than any of the TIs it does not do it natively. Her teacher even tried to help her, to no avail, on how to make it do what the TI did automatically. I am sure that it can,the HP-that is, but my 10th grade daughter is not into programing her HP-50g nor does she really have time to learn, and me being a Civil Engineer makes programing very time consuming for me.

So for this year she demanded another calculator because with the summer homework pack she could not get her calc to do what she wanted, and she did try. We went to a local chain office supply store that had all the calcs the cheapest in the area. I tried to talk her into the TI-NSpire or the TI-89 and she was having NONE of that. She made me get her a TI-84+ silver edition ( includes downloads and SAT and ACT downloads and greater memory) she is now whizzing through her math homework where she was totally stymied with the much more powerful HP-50G. So if your looking at this from a kids point of view you have to consider that. In a world where a LOT of schools are geared for the TI, having an HP can cause pain. Now if somebody were to make a program to make your HP work JUST Like a TI-84s or 89s menus that would be really useful.

The end result is while the they are both great calcs., my preference being the HP-50G, it proved to a large hurtle for my daughter to climb and I ended up buy a new TI-84 silver edition for MORE money that the much better HP-50G. Totally ironic uh? I had to get her another less powerful calculator so she could function in class. Maybe in college it may be more useful but I am going to guess in 2 years MOST likely either of these calcs. will be totally outdated though I hope not. Once again JUST my 2-3 cents worth. Hope this helps somebody.

My oldest son needed a calculator for college. Unfortunately (or fortunately in this case), all the schools specified the same TI calculator. We couldn't find one anywhere, locally. The only calculator available was a HP48S at more than double the price of the TI. He had to have a calculator so we bit the bullet. This was the happiest accident we have made with the boy's education. William ran into the same problem with the instructors being unable to assist in learning to use the HP, but William put in the time and learned how to use it. The next two boys got HP's, too. 48GX's which they still use. William is a Civil Engineer with a PE, Allen is a Mechanical Engineer, and Joseph is a Software Engineer. Joseph started a HP special interest group in high school and the participants were a close nit group that excelled in math.
I have a HP50g with the computer cable. I don't program anything on the calculator, I do it all on the computer using the cable to load programs, modify the structure and do backups. I put all the data (including manuals) on the 2 GB SD card.

 

[Sankaku]

I love my HP50g and miss RPN whenever I have to use another calculator. Just to repeat what others have said, though - the HP has a much steeper learning curve than the TI. You have to be motivated to learn it properly.

It pays off in the long run, but for kids who just want the answer in the book, the TI is going to be much easier.

I wondered if anyone knew the story with the HP-40gs? It seems to be 90% of the 50g (for much cheaper) but doesn't have RPN. Aaack! It looks like they wanted a calculator for schools (no IR, no SD) to compete with TI, but it has a CAS built-in.

http://www.educalc.net/1826083.page
http://www.rpncalculator.com/p142302-a-comparative-guide-to-hp-graphing.cfm

 

[kbey]

then enter ->KEYTIME.

Many thanks for this hint, but I did not succeed. Something stupid, I suppose. But the calculator responds with SYNTAX ERROR. Can you make it for a non-sophisticated user?
Regards.

 

[kbey]

then enter ->KEYTIME

10 minutes later: The command is at the end of the CAT. I found it finally. Again many thanks for the hint. This was a very annoying feature.
Regards.

 

[foxfyr]

Pardon me for sounding like a curmudgeon, but it seems that 99% of this thread is "arithmetic vs RPN", which quite frankly is like listening to a Windows vs Mac debate from 20 years ago.

RPN offers distinct practical advantage in that it derives and displays intermediate values that can be stored and popped off the stack at will.- This is like listening to kids debate whether vanilla or chocolate ice cream is better, so just use the one you like. For those arithmetic users, as many say, RPN is more natural ONCE you become used to it. But if you don't want to mess with it, that's fine too.

Ultimately, that is not a reason to buy or not to buy a calculator.

I am familiar with the HP units going back to the HP41 series, but the product descriptions for both the TI89 (which seems to be more popular in the classroom) and the HP are woefully lacking in technical details and long on flowery rhetoric sure to impress moms who buy these things for their kids rather than an actual presentation of their functional capabilities/features.


It sure would be nice to see a larger focus on the capabilities of each calculator and a practical comparison of both with regards to both numerical and symbolic solutions, as well as a review of what functions are built in (and what downloadable solutions/programs are available) for applied problem solving in areas such as physics and engineering mechanics, thermo, etc., as after reading through this entire thread, I still have no better idea regarding this than at the beginning.

 

[Sankaku]

Well, here is a quick comparison:

http://www.technoplaza.net/calculators/49vs89.php

Remember when reading that the 50g is faster than the 49g and fixed a few of its other problems, but they are pretty much the same otherwise. The newer TI's are somewhat improved as well.

Long story short: Both are good.
TI = easier to use and more 'community' support.
HP = somewhat more powerful for certain applications and big geek-cred for RPN

Seriously, though, if you like RPN, go for the HP, it will feel more 'right.' If you don't want RPN and don't have time for the learning curve, buy the TI.

This will give you an idea of what people do with them:
http://www.hpcalc.org/
http://www.ticalc.org/

And just so Casio doesn't feel left out, there is the ClassPad 330:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_ClassPad_300
http://www.classpad.org/overview.html

Currently the HP is less expensive than the TI and Casio ($115 vs $145 USD). However, if you want pure power, just by a netbook ($275) and load it up with Maxima, SciLab/Octave, LaTeX, and R:
http://maxima.sourceforge.net/
http://www.scilab.org/
http://www.gnu.org/software/octave/
http://www.r-project.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxima_(software )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scilab
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Octave
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaTeX
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_(programming_language )

If you have an old curmudgeon's vision, the screen might be easier to read as well :-)

 

[Engineerarch]

I'm sorry George but lacking parenthesis around the 2, that expression reads "Negative 2 to the power of 4", and that's following the order of operation. NS Bomb is correct. But this is a matter of unclear expressions, not calculator function. I also find RPN far better than algebraic. For those of us hooked on it, it simply feels more logical and intuitive.

 

[jtbell]

A friendly tip: check the date on a post you're thinking of replying to.

George and nsbomb wrote the posts that I think you're replying to, more than four years ago.

 

[Engineerarch]

Hi JT, thanks for the advice, sorry about that! I rarely use forums but I'm comparison shopping for a calculator for my son who is a freshman in high school.

I'll get the hang of it someday

 

[Ele38]

Interesting discussion :)
My opinion is that HP is better. I used a TI89 for a physics project and it was good, but the 50g is more powerful, I think!
As I said this is an interesting discussion, but also weird. High school students with these powerful calculators?
I'm a student, in the last year of High School, I study Electronics&Telecommunications.
In my classes (in the whole Italy maybe), we are not allowed to use calculators in math hours, neither a scientific calculator, nor a basic 4-operators one. In Electronics class we are only allowed to use a basic scientific calculator, non-graphic.
If student used to rely on a calculator to solve derivatives or integral, they don't know how to solve them without!

 

[lurflurf]

^So what, if they don't know how to solve them without. I do not know how to pound in nails without a hammer. There is nothing wrong with being accustomed to using appropriate tools, nor is it worth while to spend time preparing to be without tools one is unlikely to be without.

Italy huh, I met this italian once, He said in Italy college students take three times as many major courses as in America and they already know what the Americans are learning from scuola materna.