Why Does Adiabatic Compression Yield a Negative Work Calculation?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the work done during an adiabatic compression process involving helium gas. Participants are analyzing the relationship between pressure, volume, and work, particularly focusing on the sign convention used in thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the calculation of work done during adiabatic compression, questioning the sign of the work and the application of thermodynamic principles. There is a discussion about the integration process and the interpretation of the results, particularly regarding the Clausius convention and the first law of thermodynamics.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the conventions of thermodynamics and the implications of their calculations. Some participants have acknowledged errors in their understanding or calculations, while others are clarifying the definitions and relationships involved in the process.

Contextual Notes

There are references to specific values for pressure and volume, as well as the properties of helium gas. The participants are working under the constraints of a homework assignment, which may influence their approach and reasoning.

ewang
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Homework Statement
Find the work done by the gas (or on the gas) for an adiabatic process starting at V = 0.024 m^3 and 101325 Pa and ending at 0.0082 m^3 and 607950 Pa. The working gas is helium
Relevant Equations
Work for adiabatic = area under pV diagram
p1V1^gamma = p2V2^gamma
This is a relatively simple problem, but I'm not getting the right answer. For adiabatic compression, work on gas is positive, since work on gas = ΔEth and the adiabatic process moves from a lower isotherm to a higher one. Integrating for work gives:
pV * (Vf(1 - gamma) - Vi(1 - gamma))/(1-gamma)
I believe this is correct, but when I plug in the numbers, I'm getting a negative number:
101325 Pa * 0.024 m3 * ((0.0082 m3)1 - 1.67 - (0.024 m3)1 - 1.67)/(1 - 1.67)
= -3823.6 J
 
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ewang said:
Homework Statement:: Find the work done by the gas (or on the gas) for an adiabatic process starting at V = 0.024 m^3 and 101325 Pa and ending at 0.0082 m^3 and 607950 Pa. The working gas is helium
Relevant Equations:: Work for adiabatic = area under pV diagram
p1V1^gamma = p2V2^gamma

This is a relatively simple problem, but I'm not getting the right answer. For adiabatic compression, work on gas is positive, since work on gas = ΔEth and the adiabatic process moves from a lower isotherm to a higher one. Integrating for work gives:
pV * (Vf(1 - gamma) - Vi(1 - gamma))/(1-gamma)
I believe this is correct, but when I plug in the numbers, I'm getting a negative number:
101325 Pa * 0.024 m3 * ((0.0082 m3)1 - 1.67 - (0.024 m3)1 - 1.67)/(1 - 1.67)
= -3823.6 J

Nevermind, work is negative integral oops. I was staring at this for the longest time.
 
The standard thermodynamics convention of signs is the Clausius convention
ΔU = Q - W
the variation of internal energy = Heat added to the system - Work done

Thus when the gas expands we have positive work
 
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ewang said:
Homework Statement:: Find the work done by the gas (or on the gas) for an adiabatic process starting at V = 0.024 m^3 and 101325 Pa and ending at 0.0082 m^3 and 607950 Pa. The working gas is helium
Relevant Equations:: Work for adiabatic = area under pV diagram
p1V1^gamma = p2V2^gamma

For adiabatic compression, work on gas is positive
Right. work done BY gas is negative. The 1st law is usually written ## dU = \delta Q - p dV ## in physics.
 

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