Why symmetry breaking a paradigm whilst not describing Fermi liquid?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of Fermi liquid theory, specifically whether it possesses "order" and if that order is related to symmetry breaking. Participants explore the implications of these concepts in the context of theoretical physics, touching on historical paradigms and the evolution of understanding in condensed matter physics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether Fermi liquid theory has "order" and suggests that this may depend on the definition of order, proposing that it might not be described by symmetry breaking.
  • Another participant notes that in liquids, Galilean invariance is broken, which leads to sound waves appearing as Goldstone bosons of the broken symmetry, indicating a potential connection to order.
  • A participant seeks clarification on whether the term "Fermi liquid" is precise enough to address the questions raised.
  • One participant proposes that the question may relate to whether the Fermi liquid represents a state with an order different from the Fermi gas or if it allows for phase transitions, stating that instabilities can lead to magnetic ordering or pairing.
  • It is suggested that Fermi liquids and Fermi gases are adiabatically connected, implying no change of state or order, with differences arising from the strength of electron-electron interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of order in Fermi liquid theory and its relation to symmetry breaking. There is no consensus on whether Fermi liquids possess order or how it should be defined.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of defining "order" and the implications of symmetry breaking, which may depend on specific interpretations and definitions within the context of Fermi liquid theory.

nonequilibrium
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Hi!

So I'm a bit confused: first off, does Fermi liquid theory have "order". I suppose it depends on how you define order. But in case it does, is it described by symmetry breaking?

From what I read, I think it does have order which is not described by symmetry breaking. But then I have trouble understanding why Landau symmetry breaking was regarded as a paradigm for so long if another theory by Landau, i.e. Fermi liquids, did not fit it! (yes I know the paradigm is now overthrown too by topological order but that's not relevant here)
 
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In liquids, like in any matter with finite density, e.g. Galilean invariance is broken which leads to the appearance of sound waves as Goldstone bosons of the broken symmetry.
If you could be more specific about which order you are talking it would be easier to determine whether it corresponds to some symmetry.
 
nonequilibrium said:
Hi!

So I'm a bit confused: first off, does Fermi liquid theory have "order". I suppose it depends on how you define order. But in case it does, is it described by symmetry breaking?

From what I read, I think it does have order which is not described by symmetry breaking. But then I have trouble understanding why Landau symmetry breaking was regarded as a paradigm for so long if another theory by Landau, i.e. Fermi liquids, did not fit it! (yes I know the paradigm is now overthrown too by topological order but that's not relevant here)

Is your question whether the Fermi liquid is a state with an order different from the Fermi gas, or whether you can have phase transitions in the Fermi liquid? If it is the latter, then yes, you can have instabilities that lead to magnetic ordering or pairing. If it is the first, I think the point is that the models are adiabatically connected, so there is no change of state or order. It's just that in one case you have a metal with very weak electron-electron interactions, and in another the interactions can be quite strong.
 

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