Ansoft Maxwell, "cannot apply Current Excitation to non planar entity" error

[reni90]

Hello
I am new with Maxwell. I made a motor drawing in solidworks and imported it in maxwell.
I found some tutorials, and searched on the internet but could not find answer to my problem.
So when i try to assign Excitation Current to an coil i get the message
Excitation 'Current1' : Cannot apply Current Excitation to non planar entity.

I don't understand what that means, i need to have a 2d surface to assigne current?
Here is a picture of my coil

 

[gerbi]

Hello
[..]i get the message
Excitation 'Current1' : Cannot apply Current Excitation to non planar entity.

I don't understand what that means, i need to have a 2d surface to assigne current?
Here is a picture of my coil

Yes, You need 2D surface to assign a current. Create a section of an object:
select geometry->modeler->section. You need a coordinate system which will define a surface across element to create cross section. If there will be two cross sections created - separete the bodies (boolean operation).

 

[reni90]

Thanks that worked.

 

[reni90]

Unfortunitly i have now another problem. Seems like my computer has not a good procesor *** i need for the simulation of my project. So i need service like using a high cpu power server from my home which would solve the analyze and send me the results. For my 2core 2ghz amd procesor it would take days maybe weeks who knows. Do you know anyone who offers service that i need?

 

[Fuxue Jin]

Unfortunitly i have now another problem. Seems like my computer has not a good procesor *** i need for the simulation of my project. So i need service like using a high cpu power server from my home which would solve the analyze and send me the results. For my 2core 2ghz amd procesor it would take days maybe weeks who knows. Do you know anyone who offers service that i need?

Why not just give it a try? You may increase your error percentage to start with and see how long it takes. If it takes too long, you can always abort the process.

Another way to reduce the timing is to use symmetry. Cut your model in half and it will save your time.

 

[reni90]

ok it took a while but worked. Unfortunetly i have an matrix error
It is ignoring the matrix i have made, i don't understand why. In the help guide is written that i can use matrix on a core (what i did).
here is my project http://www.4shared.com/rar/spcbB2Ms/Project2.html

 

[Fuxue Jin]

Did you get any error like below?

Terminal surface mesh does not fit with conduction path in the following bodies {vodiczarotor}. Please verify them to ensure no bad effect on solutions!

The rotor and stator material is metal and conductive, so rotor and vodiczarotor (the center coil) are touching which causes the problem. You need specify the surface as insulator. Click show conduction path, and you will see them.

ok it took a while but worked. Unfortunetly i have an matrix error
It is ignoring the matrix i have made, i don't understand why. In the help guide is written that i can use matrix on a core (what i did).
here is my project http://www.4shared.com/rar/spcbB2Ms/Project2.html

 

[reni90]

yes, i get that message to. So what i need is t o set all the coil surfaces to isolated, i will try it tomorow, and post here the results.

 

[reni90]

I added boundery setting to isolation, on the cores but, now i am not getting that message you mentioned.
Here is what messages i get:

Maxwell3DDesign1 (Magnetostatic)
[warning] Maxwell3DDesign1: Solutions have been invalidated. Undo to recover. (1:48:16 apr 19, 2012)
[info] Verify conduction path: Conduction path validate success. (1:50:04 apr 19, 2012)
[warning] Matrix cannot have geometry selection. Geometry selection is ignored. (1:50:07 apr 19, 2012)
[error] Failed to load 'Matrix1' solution. (2:10:51 apr 19, 2012)
[error] Simulation completed with execution error on server: Local Machine. (2:10:53 apr 19, 2012)

So I have the problem with this matrix. I am new to maxwell and still learning, so please excause me if i aske dumb questions.
Maybe i don't quite understand what matrix is been used for. I thing it can memorize the magnetic induction in the steel (the steel part around witch the coil is set).
After i will use parametric analyse to rotate the rotor from zero to 90 degrees with 5 degree steps, so i wan to have all that mesurments in the matrix saved, so i can modifie the informations in matlab.
Here is the project again http://www.4shared.com/rar/tDd1hAIn/Project2_2.html

 

[Fuxue Jin]

In your case, Matrix here is inductance of the center coil. You can do what you described.

Your project2-2, run as it, I don't have any errors, and Matrix is 437nH. This number is for one turn winding inductance. You can specify the total winding turns and look at the postprocessed inductance.

However, a few things I don't know for sure.

I would assume this is 50Hz or 60Hz application, so skindepth is not relevant here. Also, you have so many mesh operation defined, I don't see the point of necessary.

Another thing, you have two movement operation for all objects. This is OK but I would think (1) you can use one move instead of two 92) defining a offset coordinate system is a better way.

I added boundery setting to isolation, on the cores but, now i am not getting that message you mentioned.
Here is what messages i get:

Maxwell3DDesign1 (Magnetostatic)
[warning] Maxwell3DDesign1: Solutions have been invalidated. Undo to recover. (1:48:16 apr 19, 2012)
[info] Verify conduction path: Conduction path validate success. (1:50:04 apr 19, 2012)
[warning] Matrix cannot have geometry selection. Geometry selection is ignored. (1:50:07 apr 19, 2012)
[error] Failed to load 'Matrix1' solution. (2:10:51 apr 19, 2012)
[error] Simulation completed with execution error on server: Local Machine. (2:10:53 apr 19, 2012)

So I have the problem with this matrix. I am new to maxwell and still learning, so please excause me if i aske dumb questions.
Maybe i don't quite understand what matrix is been used for. I thing it can memorize the magnetic induction in the steel (the steel part around witch the coil is set).
After i will use parametric analyse to rotate the rotor from zero to 90 degrees with 5 degree steps, so i wan to have all that mesurments in the matrix saved, so i can modifie the informations in matlab.
Here is the project again http://www.4shared.com/rar/tDd1hAIn/Project2_2.html

 

[Fuxue Jin]

When rotate rotor, it intersects with stator, so you need check out the dimension

 

[reni90]

Ok i made some changes and now i have no errors here is the project
http://www.4shared.com/rar/cvi5mkWo/ispravka.html
Now i need to analyse the data are there any guides how to analyse, how to see now the maximal magnetic induction in the stator
About the meshes, do i need to make more densty mesh, so i get more precise solution?

 

[Fuxue Jin]

I don't really know much about motor and not sure what is your objective.

I haven't looked your latest file yet. But if everything goes well, then you will have the solution of Matrix which is the inductance, and force.

Now, if you want to rotate the rotor, you can name a parameter, for example, [rotation] as angle degree, then set that to the rotor around z-axis. Now you can run the analysis using this parameter, later, you can plot the inductance vs rotation angle and something similar.

I am not really sure what you are looking for.

To me, most motor only have coils on stator, no coil on the rotor. So when you rotate rotor, you need rotate your coil as well the terminal all together.

Mesh density is relative and tradeoff. Beyond certain level, more mesh only increase simulation time, not necessarily more accurate.

Ok i made some changes and now i have no errors here is the project
http://www.4shared.com/rar/cvi5mkWo/ispravka.html
Now i need to analyse the data are there any guides how to analyse, how to see now the maximal magnetic induction in the stator
About the meshes, do i need to make more densty mesh, so i get more precise solution?

 

[reni90]

Ok, i will try to explain what i need to do.
I wannted to do:
Rotate the rotor around the Z-os and messure the voltage inducated in the coils of stator, unfortunetlly that seemed to complicated. So i decided just to mesure the magnetic flux through one of the coils and then usin dfi/dt to find the induced voltage.
What i decided to to:
I found out that its not easy to make the rotor just rotate and mesure all that, so i decided to use parametric analyse. Make static analyse by rotatin the rotor from position 0 to 90 degree (5 degree steps) messure the magnetic induction, find the magnetic flux and after that the induced voltage.
I hope i could explain what i am trying to do. I am Electrical power engineering student, and this is my project. :)

 

[Fuxue Jin]

This is not that difficult.

First, it is easier to and you should use transient solver. The workflow is this,

You need make terminals in all coils on stator, just like you did on the coil on the rotor.

You need add windings. You can have one primary winding for the coil on the rotor, and one secondary winding for the group of coils on the stator.

You need add terminals to the windings. The terminal on the rotor coil goes to the primary winding, and all the terminals of the coils on the stator go to the secondary winding.

(note: if you want to see individual induced voltage on each coil on the stator, you need create that many secondary windings for that many coils)

You need assign AC current excitation on the primary winding.

Then you specify setup for how many AC period to sweep the time.

You then can plot induced voltage of secondary winding (or windings) vs time. From here, you can get peak or rms value of induced voltage.

Then you can rotate rotor for other angle.

You don't have to change the project from magnetostatic to transient. It's much better to copy the project, and past into it, then change the second one. Transient solver doesn't do adaptive mesh, only use initial mesh, it may be good enough. If you want more accuracy for transient, you can link to the mesh in magnetostatic, that's why it's better to keep it there.

Ok, i will try to explain what i need to do.
I wannted to do:
Rotate the rotor around the Z-os and messure the voltage inducated in the coils of stator, unfortunetlly that seemed to complicated. So i decided just to mesure the magnetic flux through one of the coils and then usin dfi/dt to find the induced voltage.
What i decided to to:
I found out that its not easy to make the rotor just rotate and mesure all that, so i decided to use parametric analyse. Make static analyse by rotatin the rotor from position 0 to 90 degree (5 degree steps) messure the magnetic induction, find the magnetic flux and after that the induced voltage.
I hope i could explain what i am trying to do. I am Electrical power engineering student, and this is my project. :)

 

[Fuxue Jin]

You can do parametric analysis in transient solver as well

 

[reni90]

Ok
I understand whu i need to ad terminals on the coils of stator, so that voltage can be inducated.
I don't really understand this windings, isn't one winding equal to one of the coils i have around the stator?
So i accually don't know what windings means in maxwell, i see i can adn RLC branches in it, and set it like more parallel conected
branches.
Then again add terminals to windings, why do that if i allready have terminals on the coil?

Wont assingning AC current to the primary winding (around the rotor) make A. magnetic field?
I need the magnetic field around the rotor not to be alternating (from the point of rotor view)
http://www.4shared.com/rar/8-X05-nA/ispravkatransient.html

 

[Fuxue Jin]

Before we go into the "winding", for what you want to see, you still can use magnetostatic solution.

You need create terminal on the coils of stator, as you do on the rotor, and assign current to the terminals, you may just set current to zero, and then specify Matrix on these currents. Then run the simulation. Later you can look at mutual inductance between each currents. Matrix for Current(1,1), (2,2),,,,, is the self inductance, for Current(1,2) (1,3),,,,is the mutual inductance between these two currents (these two coils). This mutual inductance will vary if you rotate your rotor. High mutual inductance means more magnetic linkage. I think this is what you try to look for.


Now back to the winding. In your case, you have enclosed coil. Hence only one terminal assigned. So this one coil with one terminal is one winding. In other cases, the conduction path may be open ended, meaning one conduction path with two terminals, start end and finish end. Current goes from one end, must exit from the other end. Current cannot accumulate in the region not going out. In this case, the winding is one conduction path with two terminals. In transient solution, you specify the terminal as solid or stranded with turns, and assign excitation (current or voltage) on the winding not terminals. And there are other cases, for example, one winding may have more coils connected in series or parallel. So a winding is a group of coils and terminals. In Maxwell, a winding is not related to any object in the project until you add terminals to the winding. Of course you can assign one winding to one conduction path, and post-process the result yourself in any conduction paths are in series or parallel

Ok
I understand whu i need to ad terminals on the coils of stator, so that voltage can be inducated.
I don't really understand this windings, isn't one winding equal to one of the coils i have around the stator?
So i accually don't know what windings means in maxwell, i see i can adn RLC branches in it, and set it like more parallel conected
branches.
Then again add terminals to windings, why do that if i allready have terminals on the coil?

Wont assingning AC current to the primary winding (around the rotor) make A. magnetic field?
I need the magnetic field around the rotor not to be alternating (from the point of rotor view)
http://www.4shared.com/rar/8-X05-nA/ispravkatransient.html

 

[reni90]

Aha, so how i understand, i can make more windings, but does not have to.
I could just let it like now (one winding) and afterwards calculate how would it be with more etc.
Also i was thinking maybe i should only make the terminals on one stator coil?
Because the others have the same inductance only 60 degree later.
So i made the terminal one one stator coil, assignee current zero, and added matrix 1,2; 1,1 and 2,2 but receive those errors

[error] Null body found for part vodiczastator_1_Section1. (3:39:24 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Null body found for part vodiczastator_2_Section1. (3:39:24 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Null body found for part vodiczastator_2_Section2. (3:39:24 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Null body found for part vodiczastator_2_Section3. (3:39:24 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Null body found for part vodiczastator_2_Section4. (3:39:24 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Simulation completed with execution error on server: Local Machine. (3:39:24 apr 22, 2012)
i don't understand what he means with null body :S, a did exactly the same like on the rotor coil
http://www.4shared.com/rar/I38pu-Hq/ispravka_3.html
edit: i just saw those sections, don't know why maxwell made them :s, however i deleted them and now the simulation started, can't wait to see what results i will becomeand here are the new errors :(

[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section1 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:04 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section2 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:04 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section3 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:04 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section4 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:04 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section1 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:10 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section2 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:10 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section3 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:10 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section1 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:10 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section2 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:10 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section1 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:10 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Failed to load 'rotorStatorInduktance' solution. (4:05:39 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Simulation completed with execution error on server: Local Machine. (4:05:39 apr 22, 2012)

Maybe the problem is that the current is set to zero in the stator coil?

 

[Fuxue Jin]

You have objects (section of other coils on stator)) under "Unclassified" , you need delete them.

Aha, so how i understand, i can make more windings, but does not have to.
I could just let it like now (one winding) and afterwards calculate how would it be with more etc.
Also i was thinking maybe i should only make the terminals on one stator coil?
Because the others have the same inductance only 60 degree later.
So i made the terminal one one stator coil, assignee current zero, and added matrix 1,2; 1,1 and 2,2 but receive those errors

[error] Null body found for part vodiczastator_1_Section1. (3:39:24 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Null body found for part vodiczastator_2_Section1. (3:39:24 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Null body found for part vodiczastator_2_Section2. (3:39:24 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Null body found for part vodiczastator_2_Section3. (3:39:24 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Null body found for part vodiczastator_2_Section4. (3:39:24 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Simulation completed with execution error on server: Local Machine. (3:39:24 apr 22, 2012)
i don't understand what he means with null body :S, a did exactly the same like on the rotor coil
http://www.4shared.com/rar/I38pu-Hq/ispravka_3.html
edit: i just saw those sections, don't know why maxwell made them :s, however i deleted them and now the simulation started, can't wait to see what results i will become


and here are the new errors :(

[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section1 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:04 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section2 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:04 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section3 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:04 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section4 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:04 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section1 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:10 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section2 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:10 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section3 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:10 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section1 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:10 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section2 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:10 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Body could not be created for part vodiczastator_2_Section1 because of invalid parameters of this part or some of its parent part/coordinate system. (3:52:10 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Failed to load 'rotorStatorInduktance' solution. (4:05:39 apr 22, 2012)
[error] Simulation completed with execution error on server: Local Machine. (4:05:39 apr 22, 2012)

Maybe the problem is that the current is set to zero in the stator coil?

 

[Fuxue Jin]

You only need to have one Matrix, check both currents, no need to have Matrix for each current, because the results are the same.

Also, you need to specify what type of inductance you are looking for, apparent or incremental. Under "Maxwell 3D"->Design Settings-> Matrix Computation. The explanation of the difference between apparent and incremental is not easy here. You can read about these in HELP.

 

[gerbi]

As Fuxue Jin said..

.. perform that kind of analysis in transient. You can easily observe voltage, current, flux linked there.

In transient there is no adaptive mesh but it can be done manaully, by mesh operations on model.

About motor analysis.. in static conditions we observe flux distribution in core (it's done to decide if motor/model is well consrtucted). In rotating conditions we observe torque/currents/voltages.
There are really many kind of motors. And I always say that - analysis in Maxwell is only some kind of verification of previously calculated motor.

Hmm.. I see that You are at the beginning of journey named 'Maxwell' ;) Have You seen the tutorials about Maxwell ? It's good to begin with them.

 

[reni90]

actually i haven't found good beginer tutorials. I found some tutorials witch step by step are solving some problems, but there are lot of things that i don't understand why they do, and how its working.
I found now another problem, when i look at the conduction paths, the rotor is set as a conducter :S, why is that, he is of steel, i just can't find out why maxwell sees him as a conducter

 

[Fuxue Jin]

The rotor material has high conductivity, that is higher than Material Thresholds in the design settings, so it is considered as conductive. That's why you need insulating boundary.

I agree, there is very limited tutorials. The HELP is helpful only when you know about Maxwell well enough.

This place is the only one I found someone talk about Maxwell, and I hope I can learn a few things here.

actually i haven't found good beginer tutorials. I found some tutorials witch step by step are solving some problems, but there are lot of things that i don't understand why they do, and how its working.
I found now another problem, when i look at the conduction paths, the rotor is set as a conducter :S, why is that, he is of steel, i just can't find out why maxwell sees him as a conducter

 

[reni90]

ouuu, i see now

 

[reni90]

ok, now i set the parametric analyse, set a variable kutt from 0 to 90, step 5
here is what i get
ispravka (C:/Users/nino/Desktop/Zavrsni/)
Maxwell3DDesign1 (Magnetostatic)
[error] Failed to load 'rotorStatorInduktance' solution. (5:18:36 apr 23, 2012)
[error] Simulation completed with execution error on server: Local Machine. (5:18:36 apr 23, 2012)
rotorStatorInduktance is my matrix 1,2
http://www.4shared.com/rar/0KRk6ooA/ispravka_4.html

it might have something to do with this warning i recive when i set up the matrix
ispravka (C:/Users/nino/Desktop/Zavrsni/)
Maxwell3DDesign1 (Magnetostatic)
[info] Verify conduction path: Conduction path validate success. (5:32:03 apr 23, 2012)
[warning] Matrix cannot have geometry selection. Geometry selection is ignored. (5:32:22 apr 23, 2012)

 

[Fuxue Jin]

You need rotate the terminal on the coil of the rotor as well. Otherwise, it only works on zero degree.

ok, now i set the parametric analyse, set a variable kutt from 0 to 90, step 5
here is what i get
ispravka (C:/Users/nino/Desktop/Zavrsni/)
Maxwell3DDesign1 (Magnetostatic)
[error] Failed to load 'rotorStatorInduktance' solution. (5:18:36 apr 23, 2012)
[error] Simulation completed with execution error on server: Local Machine. (5:18:36 apr 23, 2012)
rotorStatorInduktance is my matrix 1,2
http://www.4shared.com/rar/0KRk6ooA/ispravka_4.html

it might have something to do with this warning i recive when i set up the matrix
ispravka (C:/Users/nino/Desktop/Zavrsni/)
Maxwell3DDesign1 (Magnetostatic)
[info] Verify conduction path: Conduction path validate success. (5:32:03 apr 23, 2012)
[warning] Matrix cannot have geometry selection. Geometry selection is ignored. (5:32:22 apr 23, 2012)

 

[reni90]

wow, you are so quick, and know always exactly what to do :D
Ok now after 15 min the analyze ended. Now i need know how to see the results, i have some feeling that he did not all the analyze (forr all degrees). I mean i think he did not parametric analyze as it should but am not sure. Can u take a look, i have also insert my results in the rar file so u don't have to wait it analyze on your computer.
http://www.4shared.com/rar/7dzI73tQ/Zavrsni.html

 

[Fuxue Jin]

There is an error in your project. You rotated twice of rotor and the coil, but only once of the terminal. So you only have solution for zero degree.

After everything is set right to go, you can plot mutual inductance vs kut.

wow, you are so quick, and know always exactly what to do :D
Ok now after 15 min the analyze ended. Now i need know how to see the results, i have some feeling that he did not all the analyze (forr all degrees). I mean i think he did not parametric analyze as it should but am not sure. Can u take a look, i have also insert my results in the rar file so u don't have to wait it analyze on your computer.
http://www.4shared.com/rar/7dzI73tQ/Zavrsni.html

 

[reni90]

yes, i could not find where is the part about rotating the rotor, so i just selected all and rotated it again, but again i can't fine where that option is added so i could delete it?
Nothing, just found it :)

 

[Fuxue Jin]

you need expand the object in the history window, to see your operation history. Click the (+) sign to expand the view.

 

[reni90]

that is done but now
ispravka (C:/Users/nino/Desktop/Zavrsni/)
Maxwell3DDesign1 (Magnetostatic)
[error] Failed to load 'rotorStatorInduktance' solution. (5:47:57 apr 24, 2012)
[error] Simulation completed with execution error on server: Local Machine. (5:47:58 apr 24, 2012)
:/
it must have something do to with [warning] Matrix cannot have geometry selection. Geometry selection is ignored.

 

[Fuxue Jin]

Manually set rotation angle to other value than zero, and click Validate to check the project, see if any error.

that is done but now
ispravka (C:/Users/nino/Desktop/Zavrsni/)
Maxwell3DDesign1 (Magnetostatic)
[error] Failed to load 'rotorStatorInduktance' solution. (5:47:57 apr 24, 2012)
[error] Simulation completed with execution error on server: Local Machine. (5:47:58 apr 24, 2012)
:/
it must have something do to with


[warning] Matrix cannot have geometry selection. Geometry selection is ignored.

 

[reni90]

Ok, now it works, but seems to last really long. I let it run for hours and when i came back it was still solving the second angle. I think I will let it tomorrow morning work again

 

[reni90]

Now i am trying to make the machine better, one of things i have to to make the material so that the stator and rotor are of lamination material. The problem is that by lamination i can choose only lamination in one direction. I need to make one part of stator lamination in Z direction and another in Y direction. But those parts are made as one, so i can't chose one and set it up with one material and then another.
Is there a way to do that?