News Bush in Baghdad - 2 Shoes, Size 10

[LowlyPion]

An Iraqi Journalist threw 2 shoes at President deselect George Bush at a news conference today.

He adroitly ducked the shoes like he has press conference questions for years now.

The remarkable thing to me was, where was the Secret Service? The journalist threw one and then had plenty of time to get off the second. No one threw their body in the path of either.

 

[mathwonk]

maybe he just wanted them polished.

 

[WarPhalange]

No one threw their body in the path of either.

Perhaps they were really smelly?

Is that where we have come as a society? Where political assassinations are done via shoes?

Imagine if in the Kennedy assassination instead of getting shot twice he got two shoes thrown at him really hard.

Or if Lincoln was hit in the back of the head with a shoe.

Things would have been a lot more funny than they are now, because of the whole "they died" thing, you know?

 

[LowlyPion]

raqi reporter throws shoes at Bush in Baghdad
2008-12-15 03:11:27

BAGHDAD, Dec. 14 (Xinhua) -- An Iraqi reporter threw his shoes at visiting U.S. President George W. Bush and called him a "dog" in Arabic during a news conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki in Baghdad on Sunday.

Reporter of Baghdadiya television jumped and threw his two shoes one by one at the president, who ducked and thus narrowly missed the attack, raising chaos in the hall in Baghdad's heavily-fortified Green Zone.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-12/15/content_10504369.htm

 

[LowlyPion]

From Reuters

raqi reporter throws shoes at Bush, calls him dog
Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:00pm EST

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - An Iraqi reporter called visiting U.S. President George W. Bush a "dog" in Arabic on Sunday and threw his shoes at him during a news conference in Baghdad.

Iraqi security officers and U.S. secret service agents leapt at the man and dragged him struggling and screaming out of the room where Bush was giving a news conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki.

The shoes missed their target about 15 feet away. One sailed over Bush's head as he stood next to Maliki and smacked into the wall behind him. Bush smiled uncomfortably and Maliki looked strained.

"It doesn't bother me," Bush said, urging everyone to calm down as a ruckus broke out in the conference room.

When asked about the incident shortly after, Bush made light of it. "I didn't feel the least threatened by it," he said.

Other Iraqi journalists apologized on behalf of their colleague, a television journalist.

Bush arrived in Baghdad earlier on Sunday on a farewell visit before he leaves office in January. The U.S.-led invasion in 2003 to topple Saddam Hussein triggered years of sectarian bloodshed and insurgency in Iraq, killing tens of thousands.

(Reporting by Matt Spetalnick; Writing by Michael Christie; Editing by Elizabeth Piper)

http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUSTRE4BD1FG20081214?virtualBrandChannel=10112

 

[Cyrus]

The US troops should put this guy on IED detection detail. MF'er.

 

[LowlyPion]

The US troops should put this guy on IED detection detail. MF'er.

Which guy? The reporter? Or the President?

 

[Cyrus]

Which guy? The reporter? Or the President?

...the "reporter" (raises eyebrow).

 

[drankin]

The reporter should be publically flogged with a pair of Nikes.

 

[SticksandStones]

Props to the reporter.

 

[Cyrus]

Props to the reporter.

I'd expect a better response from someone your age...

 

[SticksandStones]

I'd expect a better response from someone your age...

I think this "respect for the President" thing is a load of crap. The man is in charge of a nation, and should constantly be under pressure to do better. Instead, he spent 5 of his 8 years being praised for everything he did.

After how he has handled everything having a couple shoes thrown at him is the least he deserves.

 

[WarPhalange]

The reporter deserves a medal. He stood up for his country against the man who essentially date-raped it while knowing that now he will be tortured to death somewhere in Romania.

The US troops should put this guy on IED detection detail. MF'er.

I find that HILARIOUS considering that Bush got what, 4000 or so of our troops killed now? But you think using one guy to save one of our troops somehow makes you a good person who "supports the troops". Yeah.

 

[Cyrus]

The reporter deserves a medal. He stood up for his country against the man who essentially date-raped it while knowing that now he will be tortured to death somewhere in Romania.

I find that HILARIOUS considering that Bush got what, 4000 or so of our troops killed now? But you think using one guy to save one of our troops somehow makes you a good person who "supports the troops". Yeah.

Am I to take your post seriously? If so, then post with serious points. Please.

When a reporter has the chance to be in the same room as any head of state of another country, they must show respect. When a reporter interivews a head of state, they are interviewing the nation of that state. So when he throws a shoe at Bush, he's also throwing it at you and me.

When Ahmadinejad came to Columbia university, the president gave a nasty opening remark to him. Even though Ahmadinejad isn't a great guy, you don't disrepsect a head of state. The result, Ahmadinejad call him out on it and said "In Iran, we don't disrespect our guests like this when we invite them to talk". Ahmadinejad came out on top, and the president of Columbia came out looking like a fool.

Head of state: like him/her or not, you simply don't act that way.

This reporter didn't 'stand up' to anyone. He acted like like a fool and disgracing himself and his country. What could have done was ask good hard factual questions to Bush - what any real reporter does.

Please don't bother posting here if you're going to simply provide knee jerk responses. If you actually take the time to watch the news, you would know that the Iraqi's and the government want us there until things stabilize. This reporter isn't speaking for anyone but himself, and its appparent.

Rule number one of reporting: YOUR NOT THE STORY.

 

[Cyrus]

I think this "respect for the President" thing is a load of crap. The man is in charge of a nation, and should constantly be under pressure to do better. Instead, he spent 5 of his 8 years being praised for everything he did.

After how he has handled everything having a couple shoes thrown at him is the least he deserves.

So you're saying a president should be physically assulted because you don't agree with him?

 

[devil-fire]

Lets all hope this isn't the start of a larger shoe-throwing movement within Iraq like the PEI Pie Brigade of Canada that scored a hit on the honorable prime minister Jean Chretien... rest in peace PM's honor...

I have to say I'm a little surprised the guy didn't get himself shot though. I would have expected the secret service to be on "if it hits the fan, hoze them down and ask questions later" mode in Iraq. I guess there must be lots of security at these sorts of things so it isn't like the guy could have hid a grenade in his shoes as he pitched it over or anything like that.

The US troops should put this guy on IED detection detail. MF'er.

The guy lives in Iraq outside the green zone. He is on IED detection detail 24/7

 

[WarPhalange]

Am I to take your post seriously? If so, then post with serious points. Please.

Why is it that whenever someone disagrees with you, you automatically call them childish or not serious?

When a reporter has the chance to be in the same room as any head of state of another country, they must show respect.

When this guy was throwing his shoes, I doubt he was thinking "Am I going to get fired for being a bad journalist?"

When a reporter interivews a head of state, they are interviewing the nation of that state. So when he throws a shoe at Bush, he's also throwing it at you and me.

No, he is not. I did not vote for Bush. He is not my "lord" or "king". I would not take a bullet for him. This reporter hates Bush because he thinks Bush is responsible for ruining his country. If he met me, he would have no reason to throw a shoe at me. He doesn't care about me. He wants to punish the man he sees responsible. If you are personally insulted because someone you (I presume) never even met gets insulted, then I don't know what to say. I don't think I am capable of feeling like that.

This guy didn't even burn a flag or curse America or anything.

When Ahmadinejad came to Columbia university, the president gave a nasty opening remark to him. Even though Ahmadinejad isn't a great guy, you don't disrepsect a head of state. The result, Ahmadinejad call him out on it and said "In Iran, we don't disrespect our guests like this when we invite them to talk". Ahmadinejad came out on top, and the president of Columbia came out looking like a fool.

Inviting a guest to talk at your school =/= inviting yourself into another country under the pretense of helping them and completely ruining the country.

Head of state: like him/her or not, you simply don't act that way.

What do you think the reporter should have done if he didn't like Bush? Hint: peaceful protests aren't that popular in Iraq.

This reporter didn't 'stand up' to anyone. He acted like like a fool and disgracing himself and his country. What could have done was ask good hard factual questions to Bush - what any real reporter does.

See above. Didn't care about being a reporter at that point. Besides, Bush would have done to his question what he did to those shoes: dodged them and then smiled uncomfortably.

Please don't bother posting here if you're going to simply provide knee jerk responses. If you actually take the time to watch the news, you would know that the Iraqi's and the government want us there until things stabilize. This reporter isn't speaking for anyone but himself, and its appparent.

Thanks for being so condescending.

We destroyed Iraq with our war and that is something people will be angry about whether we are helping them now or not. If the reporter had a relative that died due to a stray blast or due to the increase in terrorism in the area from the conflict, he could still be angry at the person who started the whole thing, or at least the guy who was in charge when it happened. I don't see what this has to do with us leaving.

Rule number one of reporting: YOUR NOT THE STORY.

See above. Didn't care about being a reporter at that point.

 

[devil-fire]

So you're saying a president should be physically assulted because you don't agree with him?

Given the state of his unpopularity, and assuming it is with someone's shoes? Yes, I would consider it quite appropriate.

There may not be a hell or afterlife, but a leader should have fear for the potential consequences of their actions, and all the shoe throwing furry that may include.

 

[LowlyPion]

When a reporter has the chance to be in the same room as any head of state of another country, they must show respect.

That's not necessarily true. If you are looking at it from the point of view of a professional move and want to be allowed back to another Press Conference probably you want to mind your manners and say your pleases and thank yous. But too often the Press has not been tough enough with this buffoon from Crawford. It's one thing to show respect for the office, but there is no obligation to show respect for the man. Maybe if the Press had been tougher we wouldn't be in the mess we've gotten ourselves into.

This reporter didn't 'stand up' to anyone. He acted like like a fool and disgracing himself ...

I agree with that as far as it goes. Free speech doesn't mean that there is any freedom from consequences.

... This reporter isn't speaking for anyone but himself, and its appparent.

Rule number one of reporting: YOUR NOT THE STORY.

As a reporter I agree he failed his mission. As a man perhaps he feels that he has expressed himself. I won't deny him that. I also think that the best way to deal with him is to do nothing really. What better example of freedom of the Press than speaking up and expressing himself freely. What better lesson for him as to how democracies may work. Surely he is old enough to recall that under Saddam that he, his wife and all his children may have been conveniently erased for even looking the wrong way.

 

[Proton Soup]

Baghdadiya television should better vet its reporters and not just assign some shoe-in.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Let's stay cool and on topic, please. Thanks.

 

[Math Is Hard]

So, is there anything culturally symbolic about shoe throwing as a gesture? I was just thinking about how in Saudi Arabia I think it is considered rude to show the bottom of your shoe (IIRC).

 

[Cyrus]

So, is there anything culturally symbolic about shoe throwing as a gesture? I was just thinking about how in Saudi Arabia I think it is considered rude to show the bottom of your shoe (IIRC).

Muslims are all about clean. When you throw your shoe at someone you defile them. It's the equivalent of someone trying to spit on you. IOW, its a BIG DEAL.

 

[LowlyPion]

So, is there anything culturally symbolic about shoe throwing as a gesture? I was just thinking about how in Saudi Arabia I think it is considered rude to show the bottom of your shoe (IIRC).

That would suggest that throwing the bottom of your shoe at someone would be an escalation of that idea.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

There had to be a second shoe thrower. No one could possibly throw two shoes with that kind of accuracy in that short a time period. Besides, are you going to tell me that a single shoe could have hit both Bush and al-Maliki and land practically undamaged on the floor?

 

[WarPhalange]

Yes, and nobody smelled a second shoe being thrown, which suggest that the second thrower had to be far away.

 

[Proton Soup]

There had to be a second shoe thrower. No one could possibly throw two shoes with that kind of accuracy in that short a time period. Besides, are you going to tell me that a single shoe could have hit both Bush and al-Maliki and land practically undamaged on the floor?

there are conflicting reports of a shoe seen flung from the Sandy Knoll

 

[LowlyPion]

There had to be a second shoe thrower. No one could possibly throw two shoes with that kind of accuracy in that short a time period. Besides, are you going to tell me that a single shoe could have hit both Bush and al-Maliki and land practically undamaged on the floor?

Apparently it was bring filmed by some guy named Abe Zapruder and it seems that there was only one hurler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHMDdSxomcU

 

[Art]

Here's the video of the incident,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7782422.stm

It seems it was a personal protest against Bush as a person rather than a protest against America as a whole. The journalist who threw the shoes called Bush a dog (a little unfair on canines imo). Throwing shoes in Iraq is probably the Iraqi cultural equivalent of sticking up two fingers in the West. A comparison Bush himself made immediately afterwards.

 

[lisab]

There had to be a second shoe thrower. No one could possibly throw two shoes with that kind of accuracy in that short a time period. Besides, are you going to tell me that a single shoe could have hit both Bush and al-Maliki and land practically undamaged on the floor?

^2

That post floored me, jimmy!

 

[Cyrus]

Apparently it was bring filmed by some guy named Abe Zapruder and it seems that there was only one hurler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHMDdSxomcU

Like I said, put that scumb bag on IED detail. That's just uncalled for.

 

[LowlyPion]

Like I said, put that scumb bag on IED detail. That's just uncalled for.

How about a compromise?

Let's give Cheney the job.

 

[Art]

Like I said, put that scumb bag on IED detail. That's just uncalled for.

An expression of contempt for a contemptible man seems pretty apt to me.

If anyone it is Bush who should be sent on IED patrol so he can witness first hand the fruits of his stupidity.

 

[Cyrus]

An expression of contempt for a contemptible man seems pretty apt to me.

If anyone it is Bush who should be sent on IED patrol so he can witness first hand the fruits of his stupidity.

No, Art. A journalist does not go around trying to harm heads of state. There is no excuse for what he did. NONE. NOT ONE. NONE.

The same way there is no excuse for the way the president of columbia U opened for the president of Iran.

I'm sure it would seem apt to you, because you constantly berate America. I wouldn't expect you to care.

 

[lisab]

Second thrower theory aside...where WAS the Secret Service? I hope they give Obama better protection. The projectiles aimed at him might be bullets, not shoes.

BTW, Bush did a nice duck of that first shoe! You can tell he's played a bit of baseball in his day. He definitely has experience with the bean ball.

 

[Art]

No, Art. A journalist does not go around trying to harm heads of state. There is no excuse for what he did. NONE. NOT ONE. NONE.

On the other hand Cyrus heads of state should not invade other people's countries killing 1000s of their citizens in the process and then expect a warm welcome. There is no excuse for what Bush did NONE. NOT ONE. NONE.

 

[WarPhalange]

Apparently it was bring filmed by some guy named Abe Zapruder and it seems that there was only one hurler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHMDdSxomcU

If you look real closely you can see Bush has a smirk on his face right as the shoe is flying at him. Maybe it gave him a flashback to his school days playing dodgeball in PE?

 

[Art]

If you look real closely you can see Bush has a smirk on his face right as the shoe is flying at him. Maybe it gave him a flashback to his school days playing dodgeball in PE?

I suspect Bush was the sort of kid who had lots of practice dodging things thrown at him

 

[Cyrus]

On the other hand Cyrus heads of state should not invade other people's countries killing 1000s of their citizens in the process and then expect a warm welcome. There is no excuse for what Bush did NONE. NOT ONE. NONE.

Art, that does not excuse the journalist from trying to assult a head of state.


The fact that you would defend this guy throwing his shoes at the president is telling.

 

[WarPhalange]

Oh my god, it's a damn shoe. It had absolutely no chance of killing or even maiming him. A lucky hit would have given him a bloody nose or a bruised eye. And you want to kill the guy in return. What is the big deal with the shoe? Why does the president get some divine anti-shoe status? I thought "All men were created equal"?

 

[Cyrus]

WarPhalange, does it elude you that there are certain lines you don't cross when you are a professional reporter? - I think it must. If he were in the United States he could be thrown in jail. My comments about putting him on IED detail were tongue in cheek - that should have been obvious to everyone.

 

[WarPhalange]

WarPhalange, does it elude you that there are certain lines you don't cross when you are a professional reporter?

Do you think he is going to be a reporter after this? No, he will get fired. Because he crossed the line. Where's the problem?

If he were in the United States he could be thrown in jail.

I know, thank god for democracy, because he won't get that kind of mercy over there. He's probably on a flight to Guantanamo already.

My comments about putting him on IED detail were tongue in cheek - that should have been obvious to everyone.

Sorry, it wasn't to me. You repeated it a few times and called him an MFer. That implies some kind of seriousness.

 

[Cyrus]

Do you think he is going to be a reporter after this? No, he will get fired. Because he crossed the line. Where's the problem?

What does it matter what I think will happen to him after this. It is irrelevant. How do you know he will get fired, are you his boss? Do you know his boss? Please stop making statements as if they were fact.

The problem is you making statements like "Why does the president get some divine anti-shoe status" which implies its no big deal about what the reporter did. It is a very big deal. It's highly disrespectful, and unprofessional and it undermines why the president is there to help the people of Iraq.

I know, thank god for democracy, because he won't get that kind of mercy over there. He's probably on a flight to Guantanamo already.

This is simply your opinion, and as such carries no factual accuracy.

Sorry, it wasn't to me. You repeated it a few times and called him an MFer. That implies some kind of seriousness.

I was serious that he is an MFer.

 

[WarPhalange]

What does it matter what I think will happen to him after this. It is irrelevant. How do you know he will get fired, are you his boss? Do you know his boss? Please stop making statements as if they were fact.

Why would you doubt that he will be fired? He disgraced himself on international TV. I can't imagine a real news station that would keep him around after that.

The problem is you making statements like "Why does the president get some divine anti-shoe status" which implies its no big deal about what the reporter did.

He threw shoes. They weren't nuclear shoes, they weren't laser shoes, or even a pair of cleats. Last I checked that's something you get sent to detention for or possibly suspended for a few days if you actually hit someone.

To summarize:

It is a very big deal.

This is simply your opinion, and as such carries no factual accuracy. In my opinion, I find it hard to believe that this will start some weird cold-war within a real war situation.

It's highly disrespectful, and unprofessional and it undermines why the president is there to help the people of Iraq.

I agree with the first two parts. It is highly disrespectful. That was his point. He wasn't trying to show Bush how much he liked him by throwing a shoe at him. Come on.

And it was unprofessional, yes. I ain't never seen no reporter throw a shoe before and it's not what's expected from them.

But it doesn't undermine anything. Only the president undermines why the president is there to help the people of Iraq.

This is simply your opinion, and as such carries no factual accuracy.

True. I find it highly unlikely he won't get punished, though.

I was serious that he is an MFer.

Okay.

 

[Cyrus]

Why would you doubt that he will be fired? He disgraced himself on international TV. I can't imagine a real news station that would keep him around after that.

What kind of news station would hire him to begin with?

He threw shoes. They weren't nuclear shoes, they weren't laser shoes, or even a pair of cleats. Last I checked that's something you get sent to detention for or possibly suspended for a few days if you actually hit someone.

Detention or suspended? Are you in high school?

This is simply your opinion, and as such carries no factual accuracy. In my opinion, I find it hard to believe that this will start some weird cold-war within a real war situation.

What I stated was not an opnion. In middle eastern culture throwing your shoe at someone is highly insulting. Stop twisting the words I am using, or I'm going to report your post (for the 3rd time in this thread already). No one's talking about 'a weird cold war within'. What does that mean? What are you talking about? Why do you KEEP bringing up things that has nothing to do with anything?

But it doesn't undermine anything. Only the president undermines why the president is there to help the people of Iraq.

When the president takes the time out of his busy schedule to go to Iraq and puts himself at big risk while doing so (very dangerous region), it looks very bad when some smuck starts throwing shoes at the president when he's there trying to get work done rebuilding the country.

 

[WarPhalange]

What kind of news station would hire him to begin with?

I doubt news stations ask people if they throw shoes at presidents in their spare time. I guess he must have slipped under their radar.

Detention or suspended? Are you in high school?

That's what throwing shoes reminds me of. Being in high school. NOT some deadly assassination attempt.

What I stated was not an opnion. In middle eastern culture throwing your shoe at someone is highly insulting. Stop twisting the words I am using, or I'm going to report your post (for the 3rd time in this thread already). No one's talking about 'a weird cold war within'. What does that mean? What are you talking about? Why do you KEEP bringing up things that has nothing to do with anything?

What the hell am I twisting? Jesus Christ, calm down. "I'LL REPORT YOU I'LL REPORT YOU!" what is this, 3rd grade?

I meant this won't be a big deal because what can possibly happen? Increased tension between the US and Iraq because of a shoe? The president getting PTSD from this ordeal?

When the president takes the time out of his busy schedule to go to Iraq and puts himself at big risk while doing so (very dangerous region), it looks very bad when some smuck starts throwing shoes at the president when he's there trying to get work done rebuilding the country.

Yes, it does. So what?

 

[LowlyPion]

Art, that does not excuse the journalist from trying to assult a head of state.

The fact that you would defend this guy throwing his shoes at the president is telling.

I don't think anyone here is excusing the reporter. I'm not. I just don't see it as such a big deal. I'm sure he will have consequences from this. Who knows though but that some in Iraq might see him as a hero? But even at that... lighten up. It's only a press conference. Thankfully it was only a shoe or two.

Why you hang on some notion of required journalistic behavior in a country that has hardly had much of a tradition for an unfettered press in its entire history is a little much.

When the president takes the time out of his busy schedule to go to Iraq and puts himself at big risk while doing so (very dangerous region), it looks very bad when some smuck starts throwing shoes at the president when he's there trying to get work done rebuilding the country.

What in the h-e-double hockey sticks is he there for in the first place? The economy is melting down domestically and Dubya is jetting to Iraq? He's not rebuilding any damn country. He's grabbing a headline.

He and Cheney are the perpetrators of the adventure there, and frankly I can't say that the US has gotten out of this reckless aggression of theirs what they were representing to the American People they would get. (Not to mention casting aside 200+ years of jurisprudence and due process and soiling our own principles of human rights in the bargain.)

 

[LowlyPion]

Only 37 more days.

Obama says: There should only be one President at a time.

Barney Frank: I think Obama is overestimating the number of Presidents we have now.

 

[Cyrus]

Why you hang on some notion of required journalistic behavior in a country that has hardly had much of a tradition for an unfettered press in its entire history is a little much.

You can't say:

"I don't think anyone here is excusing the reporter"

and then say:

"Why you hang on some notion of required journalistic behavior in a country that has hardly had much of a tradition for an unfettered press in its entire history is a little much."

The implication of the second sentence contradicts the first sentence. So because Iraq has has unfettered press throughout its history, that means its to be expected that heads of state are assulted? Are you implying that I am being too demanding that a iraqi reporter know better than to assualt another head of state?

Are you joking me? Are you seriously going to make this argument?

As much as I don't like Bush, no one. NO ONE, is allowed to assult the president. Under no circumstancse. Ever.

If you disagree with him, voice your opinion and have protests and run against him. No one has any right to try and harm him. The president is more than just a person, he is a symbol of the nation.



I think you guys don't see why what he did is really bad because you're not middle eastern. Think of it this way, suppose he ran up to Bush and slapped him in the face, or spit in his face. It wouldn't be 'oh he just threw a shoe at him' anymore.

 

[WarPhalange]

The president is more than just a person, he is a symbol of the nation.

You'll find that at least half of the nation disagrees with you.

I think you guys don't see why what he did is really bad because you're not middle eastern.

Are you Middle Eastern? And you are right, we have a different perspective maybe because of our culture and probably because of recent history.

Think of it this way, suppose he ran up to Bush and slapped him in the face, or spit in his face. It wouldn't be 'oh he just threw a shoe at him' anymore.

I wouldn't have lost any sleep over it. Look, Cyrus, it's obvious that we have different views from you. Personally, hearing about this put a smile on my face because the man did what so many others could only dream of doing. I view Bush as a traitor and tyrant.

In fact, if this had happened to almost any other person -- including you -- I would have been pretty angry. But G-Bush and his NeoCon gang deserve no better in my opinion.

I view this in a similar vein to Jesse Owens sticking it to Hitler in the 1936 Olympics.