Do Physical Appearance and Shared Interests Affect Attraction Equally?

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AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers around the challenges of dating and the perceived superficiality of both men and women in relationships. Participants note that many men set high standards for women, often seeking unattainable ideals, while some women exhibit similar superficial tendencies, focusing on physical appearance or financial status. The conversation highlights a surplus of available, intelligent women in certain areas, contrasting with the perceived lack of suitable men. There is a recognition that social skills and character traits, such as integrity and the ability to provide comfort, play significant roles in attraction. Participants also discuss the impact of societal expectations and media portrayals on dating behaviors, suggesting that unrealistic standards can hinder meaningful connections. Overall, the thread reflects on the complexities of modern dating dynamics, emphasizing the importance of genuine interaction and the need for both genders to reassess their expectations.
  • #51
radou said:
Another sad truth.
If you think that nice guys never get girls, you either have VERY limited life experience, or you have never tried treating girls nicely. I was a tiny (5'2", 120 lb) guy through most of high school, probably because I used to run many miles a day and stayed small and wiry. Almost all my dates were taller than me, including the really cute sister of a bass-player in a band that competed with mine, who had hit 6' by the 12th grade. Treat women like people (even if you treat your male friends like crap) and express interest in the things that are bothering them. If you can be a reliable, trustworthy friend, you're going to look really attractive compared to the competition. If you can't muster the maturity to pull this off (Pons Asinorum in dating), you deserve to fail and resort to Onan's recourse.
 
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  • #52
Also, treat women (and people in general) with mental illness humanely. You will heal each other and make a better world in the bargain.

Those who grow up with abuse are further traumatized by those who have been taught to prey and manipulate. A biologically based brain disease is no more reason to discriminate against someone than race is.

Women are quickly catching up with men, but still need consideration for thousands of years of endemic biases.
 
  • #53
mathwonk said:
based on to the insights expressed in this thread, maybe the answer to another thread is "yes you can study too much."

:smile: Witty.
 
  • #54
I had a lengthy discussion about bad boys and women last year at another forum, among many people. The consensus finishing the thread was that many women/girls like bad boys because of their confidence. There was a distinction made between bad boys and jerks. The bad boys were the wild, "don't take sh*t from no one" group; the jerks were abusive losers. It was a difficult concept for us to wrangle with, that bad boys could frequently be regarded as gentlemen.
 
  • #55
Evo said:
I "ONLY" date nice guys.

My daughters only date nice guys.

My girlfriends only date nice guys.

Hmmmm, guess you may be wrong there.

What I've found to be true is that a lot of men tend to go for psycho women. Women that are insecure, pathetic, neurotic, and want abuse because they don't feel they are worthy of being treated like a human. Is it because they are easy targets? I don't get it.

RUN AWAY FROM THESE WOMEN!

Sane, normal women want to be treated as an equal, not to be treated specially, not to be treated abusively. Keep looking until you find one of these,they are all over the place.

This brings me to a question. How does one define a "nice" guy?

I understand the abusive part. But do you imply when you say "specially"? When you say equal, I take it you mean that there's no need for men to hold doors open, give up that last on the train/bus, pay for dinner, be the last ones out of a building in the case of an emergency, etc? In doing all of these, isn't that "special" treatment? Please clarify.
 
  • #56
People who are looking for relationships are going to seek out other people that stimulate and excite them. It's not so much that there's anything wrong with a 'nice guy' as much as there isn't enough right. Women go for 'players', 'bad boys', and so on because they are stimulating and exciting, and not because they aren't nice. The same is, really, true of guys.

So, the expression 'nice guy' translates to "decent human being, not relationship material." There are plenty of guys that are nice who have girlfriends, but there are very few boring guys that do.

Something that is a bit more twisted is that the range of stimulus that people look for is hugely varied. A lot of people are dysfunctional because the stimulus that they're looking for isn't healthy, or doesn't lead to sustainable relationships.
 
  • #57
*beats dead horse*

Wasn't there a thread similar to this a few months ago where I got jumped all over for the anti-nice guy thing?
 
  • #58
Evo said:
My girlfriends only date nice guys.

Any of them available, by chance? :biggrin:

Evo said:
Keep looking until you find one of these,they are all over the place.

Well, I sure will! :approve:

Nah, it's just me, actually. I'm not trying hard enough, I admit.

turbo-1 said:
If you think that nice guys never get girls, you either have VERY limited life experience,

You're right on this one, I admit once again.

turbo-1 said:
If you can be a reliable, trustworthy friend, you're going to look really attractive compared to the competition.

Of course I can, turbo. But that's the problem, because all that I seem to be is a reliable and trustworthy friend in most cases. And I obviously didn't look attractive enough.

But this is related to my upper reply, so I guess it's not so tragic.
 
  • #59
radou said:
Of course I can, turbo. But that's the problem, because all that I seem to be is a reliable and trustworthy friend in most cases. And I obviously didn't look attractive enough.

But this is related to my upper reply, so I guess it's not so tragic.
Don't give up on this one. Reliable and trustworthy are really big deals, and if your lady-friends don't "click" with you romantically, rest assured that one day they will meet another female that they think is perfect for you, and start playing match-maker. First be their friend - you'll see. This isn't a zero-sum game in which you keep score. Making and keeping friends of the opposite sex is a win-win and it's going to make breaking the ice with their girl-friends so easy.
 
  • #60
JasonRox said:
Nice guys never get girls.

Correction: Nice guys never get jobs.
 
  • #61
Werg22 said:
Correction: Nice guys never get jobs.

Eh?

[10 char
 
  • #62
turbo-1 said:
Don't give up on this one. Reliable and trustworthy are really big deals, and if your lady-friends don't "click" with you romantically, rest assured that one day they will meet another female that they think is perfect for you, and start playing match-maker. First be their friend - you'll see. This isn't a zero-sum game in which you keep score. Making and keeping friends of the opposite sex is a win-win and it's going to make breaking the ice with their girl-friends so easy.

Thanks for the good piece of advice, turbo.
 
  • #63
ranger said:
Eh?

[10 char

To get promoted you need to step on a few toes more often than not.
 
  • #64
Werg22 said:
To get promoted you need to step on a few toes more often than not.

Gee, I thought you had to perform efficiently. Who knew! In fact, I fire everyone that steps on toes!
 
  • #65
Loren Booda said:
I know of too many guys who will not date a woman unless she is a Miss America stunner or willing to give to their favorite charity (sex). Otherwise, they would rather sit at home watching TV (the "Captain Jack" syndrome). I should know - I practiced this for years.

Here in Arlington there is a considerable surplus of ladies, most of them intelligent and many available. If I were not dedicated to my current girlfriend, I would have a wide choice of other good women with whom to have a meaningful relationship. As one gets to know them, the more attractive they become, and the more meaningful the prospect of intimacy.

Do you notice a similar pattern in your neck of the world?

Yes. But I've also noticed that, for the most part, women are only overtly interested in you if you have money.

And the men are only interested in the women who have sex.

So, guess who gets the most interest per capita?

Is it just me or is this normal?
 
  • #66
NateTG said:
So, the expression 'nice guy' translates to "decent human being, not relationship material." There are plenty of guys that are nice who have girlfriends, but there are very few boring guys that do.
I prefer "boring" guys. A guy that prefers staying home reading or working on a project is perfect for me.

A nice guy, in my opinion, is kind and considerate, this means that if he says he'll call you, he does, he doesn't make plans with you and then change them without telling you. I don't mind if he changes plans as long as he tells me so I'm not left wondering what happened. A nice guy listens to you and is considerate of your feelings. A nice guy is your best friend as well as your lover. A nice guy doesn't play games or try to make you jealous.

A nice guy can be exciting and adventurous, nice guys are usually very interesting. Bad boys are inconsiderate, self centered, and can be extremely boring. They are usually so wrapped up in themselves that they have no personality and can't talk in depth about anything meaningful.

Just my experiences with types of men I've run across.
 
  • #67
This thread proves to me that there is no tried and tested means of success, every person is different, every person has different preferences, therefore the means to achieve success are dynamic.

The amount of people who's subjective knowledge seems to be applied to some sort of objective wisdom is surprising, to be frank if you have any tried and tested methods, you're not playing the same game I am?

It's a very capricious part of life, and anything close to absolute assumptions are meaningless. Yeah let's assume that you have the bible on relationships, let's also assume that your religion is meaningless to everyone else. All you can give is very generalised pointers; the fact is if you've learned anything about people, then the ability to adapt is by far and a way the most important thing you should take into any social circumstance, and giving any hard and fast rules is a foolish thing to even consider given the medium you are working with.

The first step is in realising that you are a fool :biggrin:
 
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  • #68
Very true, it would seem my notion of what a nice guy and bad boy is isn't how others classify them. It's just traits I find attractive or try to avoid.
 
  • #69
Evo said:
I prefer "boring" guys. A guy that prefers staying home reading or working on a project is perfect for me.

Just curious, did you always prefer such guys?
 
  • #70
radou said:
Just curious, did you always prefer such guys?
Yes, always.
 
  • #71
'nice guy' translates to "decent human being, not relationship material."
No! Perhaps 'nice guy' is a euphemism used by some for a 'boring guy'. However, I would define a nice guy the same way Evo does. Considerate, thoughtful, honest/straightforward, hard working, trustworthy - which are all attributes one would want in a spouse.

There are plenty of nice guys who doing interesting things like travel to interesting places.


A guy that prefers staying home reading or working on a project is perfect for me.
I enjoy being home in the evening reading, or working, or participating in PF or another science forum. Otherwise, I'm doing home repairs/upgrades or gardening.

I'm bringing too much work home too much these days. :frown:

Evo said:
A nice guy, in my opinion, is kind and considerate, this means that if he says he'll call you, he does, he doesn't make plans with you and then change them without telling you. I don't mind if he changes plans as long as he tells me so I'm not left wondering what happened. A nice guy listens to you and is considerate of your feelings. A nice guy is your best friend as well as your lover. A nice guy doesn't play games or try to make you jealous.
The best friend part is the key. Friends trust one another, and beside communication, mutual trust is very important in a bilateral relationship.
 
  • #72
"A guy that prefers staying home reading or working on a project is perfect for me." -Evo
"I enjoy being home in the evening reading, or working, or participating in PF or another science forum. Otherwise, I'm doing home repairs/upgrades or gardening." -Astronuc

smooth =)
 
  • #73
smooth =)
No. Don't read anything into my comment.

I'm already married. See my earlier posts.

Besides - it's more a matter of age. I got my h***-raising days out of my system in my early years of university, and at that time, I wasn't dating. I wouldn't have wanted to subject a woman to that.


These days I just prefer quiet evenings. I don't like crowds or noisy places.


I do the like the great outdoors - particularly mountainous regions.


I amused myself last night watching bats fly around my backyard. :-p
 
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  • #74
Schrodinger's Dog said:
This thread proves to me that there is no tried and tested means of success, every person is different, every person has different preferences, therefore the means to achieve success are dynamic.

The amount of people who's subjective knowledge seems to be applied to some sort of objective wisdom is surprising, to be frank if you have any tried and tested methods, you're not playing the same game I am?

It's a very capricious part of life, and anything close to absolute assumptions are meaningless. Yeah let's assume that you have the bible on relationships, let's also assume that your religion is meaningless to everyone else. All you can give is very generalised pointers; the fact is if you've learned anything about people, then the ability to adapt is by far and a way the most important thing you should take into any social circumstance, and giving any hard and fast rules is a foolish thing to even consider given the medium you are working with.

The first step is in realising that you are a fool :biggrin:

i don't see how anyone with any amount of critical thinking skills doesn't realize that relationships and attractive qualities and what it takes to get a date is as unique to the parties involved as the parties involved are unique.
 
  • #75
ice109 said:
what it takes to get a date is as unique to the parties involved as the parties involved are unique.
That's clever. I like it. :biggrin: First thing post this thread that hasn't made me shake my head.
 
  • #76
turbo-1 said:
You may grow up eventually. Or maybe not.

You'll be a lot happier in the long run if you actually treat women as people instead of objects. You might find a life-long friend, and if you're really lucky, your life-long friend will be a wonderful partner for life, sex, intellectual interests, fun, etc. If you're a self centered jerk, you'll live and die alone, even if you have some half-hearted companionship along the way. You get to choose.

I do respect woman and myself.

I find that nice guys don't respect themselves in some ways. I see girls setup dates with guys and then the girl bails on them. I don't put up with that ok. I say to them that no friend of mine can just disrespect me like that and so on. Nice guys are just like... that's ok. It's fine.

I treat woman as people more than objects. I was the first person before even the females to speak up on why there aren't any girls in my department. It doesn't bother me, but a lot of girls are more capable of doing it than some guys that are in the department.

No offense, but really, nice guys don't get girls in my books. I used to be the nice guy kind of person, but not anymore at all. Like I said in my earlier threads, girls and people and generally connect with me very well and like my honesty, trust and loyalty. I just don't put up with any disrespect towards me whatsoever.
 
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  • #77
JasonRox said:
I used to be the nice guy kind of person, but not anymore at all. Like I said in my earlier threads, girls and people and generally connect with me very well and like my honesty, trust and loyalty.

What a contradictory post. Are you a nice guy or not..? I mean, you are honest, trustworthy and loyal, doesn't that make you nice? :-p

(Kidding, I get your point.)
 
  • #78
ice109 said:
i don't see how anyone with any amount of critical thinking skills doesn't realize that relationships and attractive qualities and what it takes to get a date is as unique to the parties involved as the parties involved are unique.

Yeah you'd think :smile:, not directed at anyone in particular though, but let's just say a lot of people have preconceived notions ideas and baggage when they approach the subject.

ie women only go for men with x or you have to have x characteristics or be y or you don't stand a chance.
 
  • #79
radou said:
What a contradictory post. Are you a nice guy or not..? I mean, you are honest, trustworthy and loyal, doesn't that make you nice? :-p

(Kidding, I get your point.)

I was just going to put an article explaining what I mean in good words, but it has to stay low so now I can't post it. I'll re-write it sometime.

Once you read it though, it's just like... I'm an idiot.

Although I was a nice guy before, girls were still attracted to me regardless. It didn't make a difference, but I can get many more attracted. Even the girl at another high school tried to get me to go out with her on the weekends, where everyone thought she was the hottest girl that ever went to this particular school (I didn't think so). She gave me rides to school that were so out of her way (10 minute car ride to school was not 35-40 minutes). My gf didn't like that, but I was just like, I'm getting a ride for my 8am class. Nothing beats that! I totally forgot about this though. I'll have to make fun of her next time I see her.
 
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  • #80
Schrodinger's Dog said:
ie women only go for men with x or you have to have x characteristics or be y or you don't stand a chance.

I agree with that, but I still believe there are certain patterns in the male vs. female saga.
 
  • #81
Loren Booda said:
I know of too many guys who will not date a woman unless she is a Miss America stunner or willing to give to their favorite charity (sex). Otherwise, they would rather sit at home watching TV (the "Captain Jack" syndrome). I should know - I practiced this for years.

I'm not going to date someone I'm not attracted to... why would I do that, when I can date someone I AM attracted to... there are plenty of attractive horny women that are equally engaging - why settle?
 
  • #82
What would it take for a guy to date a woman, knowing that sex was out of the equation? Some of us have had no choice in the matter, but ended up enjoying her company anyway.
 
  • #83
Why would you want to date someone if sex was out of the question? It defeats the purpose of dating.
 
  • #84
cyrusabdollahi said:
Why would you want to date someone if sex was out of the question? It defeats the purpose of dating.

:confused: so people who can't have sex shouldn't date?
 
  • #85
Those people would be the exception. Provided that Chuck Norris does not kill them first for having ED. But still, they should date someone they want to have sex with, even though they cant.
 
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  • #86
cyrusabdollahi said:
Those people would be the exception. Provided that Chuck Norris does not kill them first for having ED. But still, they should date someone they want to have sex with, even though they cant.

cyrusabdollahi, the Chuck Norris thing is a fad already. It's not popular in 2007.
 
  • #87
Werg22 said:
cyrusabdollahi, the Chuck Norris thing is a fad already. It's not popular in 2007.
Oooo, Chuck Norris going to roundhouse your ass. Just wait (he's busy).
 
  • #88
I suggest you edit quickly before a mod sees that post.
 
  • #89
What? Like with asterisks or something? The site does that automatically, if they don't want me to say 'ass' they can add it to the censor.
 
  • #90
Werg22 said:
I suggest you edit quickly before a mod sees that post.

Hey, Evo is not that evil ! :biggrin:
 
  • #91
Loren Booda said:
What would it take for a guy to date a woman, knowing that sex was out of the equation?
Well, first he would have to ask the woman, and secondly she would have to accept the date.

Why would you want to date someone if sex was out of the question? It defeats the purpose of dating.
The purpose of dating is to get to know the other person, and enjoy the company or companionship of the other person. I never expected to have sex as the result of a date.
 
  • #92
cyrusabdollahi said:
Why would you want to date someone if sex was out of the question? It defeats the purpose of dating.

OMG, Cyrus. You tell it as it is. No one else in this thread has been honest thus far! :approve:
 
  • #93
cyrusabdollahi said:
Why would you want to date someone if sex was out of the question? It defeats the purpose of dating.

Well, it all depends, but I definitely wouldn't call sex the purpose of dating.

Btw, there are other ways to get sex, without intensive dating or so (and no, I'm not referring to prostitutes!).
 
  • #94
I want sex, and if she didn't for whatever reason, then she's cut. Sorry, that's what I want.

The thing is that everyone might confuse that with sex is all that I want. When it is not. I wouldn't do one night stands. I have once and won't do it just because I feel better sleeping with someone I admire. But if the person I admire doesn't want to sleep with me, I'll go find someone else. Why stay if my needs are already not being met?

Yeah, yeah, yeah you can still have fun without sex. I know that and have fun without sex. I never said that fun only comes from sex. All that I am saying, and I am sure Cyrus is also, is that I like sex and I enjoy it. Why deprive myself of it? There are so many fish in the sea that if one won't do it, another one will.

I probably would never sleep with a girl after the first date, but I pretty much make out with them everytime (if I like her). But if she wanted to go down on me, that's fine. No sex though. Although some people count that as sex, I don't.

It's funny because I have rules regarding it. I won't say what they are, but I do know some people that I have told now follow them. Why? It allows you to weed out the possibility of ending up in a relationship with no sex. Or one with very little sex.
 
  • #95
JasonRox said:
But if she wanted to go down on me, that's fine.

What about the converse? :-p
 
  • #96
radou said:
Well, it all depends, but I definitely wouldn't call sex the purpose of dating.

Btw, there are other ways to get sex, without intensive dating or so (and no, I'm not referring to prostitutes!).


Sure it is. Thats the whole reason why you're out on a date! :-p

If you wanted friendship, you would be going out with a close friend who is female. But that's not the same thing as going out on a date with someone you like. You like her because your attracted to her. I am not saying you're going to demand sex that night, but you eventually want to get to that point. Its the reason why you asked her out. Attraction.

I know some girls that are really nice people, but I am not attracted to them. They have great personalities, but I can't ask someone out that I don't find to be attractive in my eyes.
 
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  • #97
I guess it comes with age, but I've dated men that I wasn't physically attracted to initially, but after getting to know them, their appearance didn't matter because they were so great. Is that something that none of you can see yourselves doing? Does it always have to be physical attraction? Is it just women that can find themselves attracted to personailty so that looks don't matter? I guess to clarify, their personality makes them physically attractive, all the physical flaws become endearing.
 
  • #98
radou said:
What about the converse? :-p

Nope. :-p

I will when she becomes valuable enough to sleep with me. If she goes down on me on the first date, that could lower her chance of that happening.
 
  • #99
Evo said:
I guess it comes with age, but I've dated men that I wasn't physically attracted to initially, but after getting to know them, their appearance didn't matter because they were so great.


Is that something that none of you can see yourselves doing?

I don't see myself doing that personally. Why should I do that? Like I said, if she's ugly but has great character, well guess what, there is so many fish in the sea that I will find one that's attractive and has great character. And yes, I already found lots of them. So, no I would not go on a date with a girl I'm not attracted too.

Keep in mind I'm attracted to a wide variety of girls. I'm attracted to this girl right now that I don't think anyone else is, and I just think she's hot. I don't know anything about her. I only have small talk with her and I really don't see anything special about her yet. But, I think she's hot.

Does it always have to be physical attraction?

Now you're making some sort of assumption as if that's all it is, when it's not. Like I said earlier, I said the girl is nothing special. That's of yet, since I never got to know her yet. She has a boyfriend, but when school starts I'll be more aggresive though. Her boyfriend should watch out to be honest with you.

Also, in my other posts. I only sleep with those I admire. It takes more than physical attraction to create admiration, for me anyways. So, no it does not always be physical attraction. At the beginning, yes because there is nothing else to base it on. If I just so happen to get to know someone who is not attractive and she turns out to be cool, still no because I want someone attractive and I am capable of getting someone I am attracted to. She would just be like a guy friend in the literal sense that she or he is not attractive (to have sex with) to my eyes but cool as a person.

Is it just women that can find themselves attracted to personailty so that looks don't matter?

No, I doubt this. I think girls can get attracted to personality, just like men can. I do too, but like I said, you will only get friendship with me. But other guys might go beyond that, and actually start a relationship with someone who's not attractive. Imagine your partner finding out you don't think he or she is attractive... have fun. Anyways, why do some do it? Maybe they think they can't get someone more attractive, or literally can't get someone more attractive. Low self-esteem or low self-worth. Of course, full out good people might go out with someone they're are not attractive to, so I'm not saying you must have low self-esteem or what not. I just see that as one of the reasons.

Another important thing to is to have your partner comfortable with themselves atleast a little so you can work from there. Sleeping with someone who is uncomfortable with their appearance or themselves just sucks. The sex just sucks. They won't do this or that because it's weird and all that jazz. So, it's not even just hot and admirable in my opinion, it's all comfort and have some self-esteem (lots of girls don't have much so I don't put high standards on that one). I'm willing to work with "some" self-esteem. My ex-gf had "some" at the beggining, and now she has much much more where I help her build that and I like that. Now the sex is unbelievable. Of course, you now know she can just hook up with a guy and get crazy, but most guys are lame so I don't have to worry about that. Hence, why she rather stay with me until that other guy who's not lame comes around. Haha. :-p

I guess to clarify, their personality makes them physically attractive, all the physical flaws become endearing.

That would never work for me. Atleast not now anyways.

Oh and one thing I hate is when people say that if you just go for attractive people, you're shallow. I HATE THIS BEYOND ANYTHING. How can you say someone is shallow for going for someone who is attractive meanwhile you know nothing about this person? Atleast you're going for this person for an actual reason. Attractive people can have all the qualities a non-attractive person has, and those good qualities are also what I look for. Just because I add attractive to the list of wants or needs does not make me shallow. That's just dumb. To people who think that, I just always ask them would you date a girl/guy who has a really great personality and is funny? They say yes. I say... "And they're attractive." And they say... "Of course, because he/she has a great personality too." And then I say... "But she's a crack addict." And then they say... "NO WAY I'LL DATE A CRACK ADDICT." Well, I say... "Well, he or she is great and everything just like you said you would date someone who is great, but she's a crack addict that doesn't interfere with her personality and now you say no? That's shallow. Just like attractiveness doesn't interfere with personality."

Evo, you break up with guys who just don't use the proper fork or something. That's no different. Something that really doesn't have anything to do with someone's true personality.
 
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  • #100
Evo said:
I guess it comes with age, but I've dated men that I wasn't physically attracted to initially, but after getting to know them, their appearance didn't matter because they were so great. Is that something that none of you can see yourselves doing? Does it always have to be physical attraction? Is it just women that can find themselves attracted to personailty so that looks don't matter? I guess to clarify, their personality makes them physically attractive, all the physical flaws become endearing.
Yeah, I'd say that looks aren't the most important factor for me, but you know, she has to be a little pretty. I can't date someone I don't want to look at.
 

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